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Imaging Toned Silver... A question (W/ Image of Attractively Toned 1971 Canada Dollar)

How do some sellers/posters manage to get the toning to show 'all the way around' the coin?

I can always get one quarter to one half, sometimes a bit more, to show, but the rest is always dark.

Would two light sources work?

I basically don't have any sort of photography set-up, I just place the coin on a canvas mint bag, hold the camera steady and take the pics. (Using an 8 year-old HP Cam w/ Tiffen macro lens.) The light is the bare 60 watt bulb on the ceiling. (Pretty hi-tech stuff, I know.)

The coin below has more color, (colors like at the top-left, seen nicely here) at the bottom, but if I move the camera to capture that part, another part of the coin 'goes dark'!

Thanks in advance for any tips/help/info!

image


I remember when!

Comments

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The trick with shooting toned silver and being able to capture the color is to have the light falling directly on the surface of the coin. It can be achieved 2 ways:

    1. Tilt the coin into the light source directly, ensuring the light is far enough to cover the whole surface of the coin. In my example below, the light source is to the right of my camera and the coin is tilted into the light by using an NGC slab. Because you're not shooting the coin straight down, it will not turn out completely round and you would have to work a bit in photoshop to adjust the image. Also, since the coin is at an angle to the camera, you'll have to make sure to set enough depth of field (Av) on your camera to ensure the entire coin is in focus.

    2. Position the coin flat and shoot is straight down through an angled piece of glass that will reflect the light onto the surface of the coin from a light source positioned horizontally and parallel to the coin. You will need to play with the angle of the glass to get a hang of it and as previously mentioned, make sure the light source is either large enough, or far enough to hit the entire surface of the coin.

    Here's one of my recent examples of the first method:

    image

    I've ensured the coin is round in photoshop and lightened it up a bit since the light source I was using was weak.

    image
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In your example, the light is hitting only a small part of the coin ("NAD" in "CANADA"). Without moving the camera, try lifting the opposite end of the coin so that the light washes over the whole surface. You might have to move your light further back, or diffuse it much better if it's too focused in one spot.
  • theboz11theboz11 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭
    I use a Home made set up like this. Put the coin under the camera. Place the light source in front of this unit, so it hits the Glass reflecting Downward and illuminate the coin as you prefer, then pull the trigger on the camera. As you can see, this is just made of scarp wood and glass from a $1 Store Picture frame. All in all it cost about nothing, Paint stirrer for support of the glass and Curtain holders for the glass brace at the top, Camera mounted on an old License plate holder.

    image

    _________________________

    You can also use a Tupperware frosted bowl with a Hole cut in the bottom, place the bowl over the coin, bottom side up. Shoot the coin through the Hole using bright light that will diffuse through the Bowl , Or by using a white sheet like cloth over or in front of the light to Diffuse it.image
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glass method is called Axial photography.
    I use it all the time.
    However, even there are a few tricks to it.

    1 Camera lens should be diectly above and 90 degrees to the coins surface.
    2 glaas pane should be clean at 45 degree to the camera / coin.
    3 light source should be at a horizontal 0 degrees to the glass pane and shine directly on it. Glass acts as a prism and breaks the light 90 degrees down because of the angle it is set.
    4 to keep the glass at 45 , cut 2 pieces of 2x4 and srew them on a piece of plywood. slide the pane in to it. voila, 45 degrees level. but leave a little wigglr room...
    5 kightsource should be bnled by a normal reflector. use maximal 60 watt incancescant ( or experiment with leds and goose necks.
    6 your camera MUST be on a steady mount, as sometimes your exposure requires LONGER than hand held times. use a time releases shutter. or and a trypod.
    7 your camera settings are important, especially the White Balance.
    I Have a complete setup description as a MS word or .pdf file. iof anyone would like to have it, just PM me.

    have a great day.
    H
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I almost never use axial lighting for my shots for a couple reasons. First, much of my photography is through plastic, and the slab doesn't play nice with it. Second, I'm always able to get results I like without it.

    If you want a picture of the color on a brilliant or proof-like silver coin, you need to eliminate the bright and dark spots on the coin. Diffusion is your friend for this. It will flatten out the light so that all parts of the coin are lit equally well. There are a few things in your setup, however, that will get in your way of a good picture. First, is the ceiling bulb being used for illumination. Very hard to reposition that light they way you want to. image Also, being far away from the coin, it is a rather contrasty light source. Second, hand-holding the camera will be harder with diffuse light, because with diffusion, you lose some light and will need a longer exposure.

    My first prescription is a shopping trip to WalMart. Two gooseneck desk lamps and a cheap tripod will set you back less than $50. Having two lamps will give you more even lighting for all your shots, so that you don't have very bright and very dark areas of your coins. For diffusion in this setup, take a sheet of white paper and tri-fold it so that it can be stood on end and surround your coin. Aim the lights at the paper and shoot the coin this way. You'll have a longer exposure, but very even lighting of the toning, which is what you want.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want a cheap camera that, according to the specs, will do good coin photos on a tripod, get the Canon A800. At $90 it's hard to go wrong, and it's better qualified than dozens of other cameras up to $150 for which I've read the specifications. It focuses close when zoomed, it has manual/custom white balance (not to be confused with auto white balance, which should never be used for coins), manual ISO setting, a 2 second self timer, and uses AA batteries. Get a black camera so that it doesn't become its own light source. Even after you add your trip to Walmart for the Targus TGT-58TR tripod ($14) and a couple gooseneck desk lamps, you're still under $150 for the whole setup.
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've tried and there's no way I can capture the color of these, so I have them professionally imaged:

    image

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • I agree with messydesk....I don't screw with axial lighting very often and while I have had some color results, I seem to have to move the coin and lots around so much I end up with 50 shots of each coin just to find one keeper....not worth the time in my opinion. For sake of disclosure...I am using a much better camera and lens then the OP and I have many years of experience imaging nothing but toned coins so while I recommend 3 lights, a copy stand, SLR with Macro lens...I have gotten some great shots with a simple tripod and point and shoot digital camera so I know that technique trumps almost everything else within reason.

    I just received 3 canadian coins from boardmember manorcourtman last week and imaged the coins so I can give you some examples of shots using no difussion and shots where I difussed the light so you can see the difference.


    Non Diffused:

    image

    image



    Diffused:


    image

    image



    Non Diffused:

    image

    image



    Diffused:


    image

    image



    Non Diffused:



    image

    image



    Diffused:

    image


    image



    Personally I prefer non diffused shots since you don't have to adjust the contrast and usually the coins look more like coins and less like cartoons, but alas so coins including a lot of proofs or DMPLs etc are just so difficult to image you almost have to difusse or use the afore mentioned axial technique image
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I recommend 3 lights, a copy stand, SLR with Macro lens. >>


    that is exactly what i use with axial and without (1 light only if not axial)
    canon software ,Canon digital SLR and a 90mm macro...
    works every time... but key is still white balance settings..
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kryptonitecomics, you can remove the haze on the diffused shots in Photoshop quite easily by adjusting the contrast.
  • I adjusted the contrast already but I don't like playing around with the settings too much post imaging as the coins look more like cartoons to me image
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I never really understood a lot of the aversion to using post-processing to complete a photograph. It's merely another step in the processing chain when used correctly, and like taking the pictures themselves, requires practice and creativity to become adept at it.

    When adjusting contrast to reduce slight slab glare, pay attention to where the edges of the glare are, and use a mask that matches the shape of the glare to control where you make the adjustments (lasso tool with a large amount of feathering). After reducing the glare this way, you will always need to reduce the saturation.

    image

    In this result, I also have to do color correction in a similar manner, as the lower left fang is too purple.

    image

    Much better.
  • I don't have a problem with post processing to make a coin image look more like the coin in hand, unfortunately most of the post processing I see is used to decieve buyers on Ebay with profit being the sole motivating factor. I prefer to keep my images as close to out of camera as possible as usually that coin image matches the coin in hand as close as as possible at that point. Even doing that I get buyers who complain that a coin they received doesn't look like the image....even though I usually disagree I simply refund and move on as everyone is going to look at a coin under different lighting and that makes a huge difference.

    In your adjusted examples messydesk the color is not that vibrant in hand and is much closer to what you see in my image with the "haze" so that's what I went with and understanding that these coins aren't for sale a slight embellishment is not really an issue regardless.

    It's just comes down to personal taste really image


  • << <i>I don't have a problem with post processing to make a coin image look more like the coin in hand, unfortunately most of the post processing I see is used to deceive buyers on Ebay with profit being the sole motivating factor. I prefer to keep my images as close to out of camera as possible as usually that coin image matches the coin in hand as close as as possible at that point. Even doing that I get buyers who complain that a coin they received doesn't look like the image....even though I usually disagree I simply refund and move on as everyone is going to look at a coin under different lighting and that makes a huge difference. >>


    I agree 100% with every single point you made.

    Here's the same coin using different lighting, the flashy version at bottom resulted from tilting the coin to reflect light off the coin directly into the camera. The top version is closer to how the coin appears in hand under typical lighting conditions, but the color is indeed there, if the lighting is right.

    Notice that with the light reflecting directly into the camera, I had enough light to achieve a tremendous depth of field focus, resulting in a picture with extremely sharp details.

    image

    Edited to note: This is a PROOF coin.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In your adjusted examples messydesk the color is not that vibrant in hand and is much closer to what you see in my image with the "haze" so that's what I went with and understanding that these coins aren't for sale a slight embellishment is not really an issue regardless.

    It's just comes down to personal taste really image >>


    I agree that it comes down to personal taste. My adjustments were, of course, based on what I assumed the coin looks like. What I was trying to do was remove the effect of the glare from the slab, showing how you can do it when the glare is not uniform -- see the black shadows at the top of the original picture and gray shadows at the bottom. With the coin in hand, the picture could be further corrected to look as it would without the plastic in the way. Once the glare is removed and color balance is uniform, the rest is easy. One last try:

    image
  • Yep that one's just about spot on and I knew you hadn't seen the coin in hand so I would have been surprised if you nailed the look right off without seeing the "Look" image
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    I tilt the coin somewhat and shoot 'em raw.

    image
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are a couple of example of what was described above in terms of using color balancing, sharpness, and contrast when shooting slabbed coins. I reduced all images to 800 width to make it a bit more manageable to show.

    1. Straight out of the camera. Notice the light washing over the slab creating a haze, but not focused in any particular area. To diffuse I use a sheet of plain white paper wrapped around an OTT lamp:

    image

    2. Since I was playing around with lighting, my white balance was not perfect straight out of the camera, so I adjusted the color levels, using the white slab to judge if the color spot on.

    image

    3. Using Brightness / Contrast sliders adjusted it to remove most of the haze from the slab.

    image

    4. Using the elliptical marquee tool I selected the coin itself and applied unsharp mask and another slight contrast adjustment to get it to what the coin looks like in-hand. Normally I would use the marquee to select the coin, copy it, and paste it in a blank image to showcase the coin itself and not the slab around it.

    image

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