Options
What is your opinion of a dealer turning down 2x PCGS guide for a common coin, asking 3.5x ?
seateddime
Posts: 6,180 ✭✭✭
I do not want to mention names but a well known and larger dealer has listed a not at all rare coin in PCGS Fine at 3.5 PCGS guide. The guide may be a little below the market value of the coin but it is not close to finest known at one of the lowest graded of the dozens in holders.
I offered PCGS guide on Ebay it was auto rejected then offered 1.5x again rejected so for the heck of it I offer 2x - more than any auction result by far and rejected yet again.
This dealer want 3.5x guide, it is not even close to worth it, if fact he wants almost as much as another dealer sold me a PCGS XF for for not long ago. This coin is a F-12.
Beyond the obvious don't buy it if you don't like the price, what do this make you think about everything else being offered?
I offered PCGS guide on Ebay it was auto rejected then offered 1.5x again rejected so for the heck of it I offer 2x - more than any auction result by far and rejected yet again.
This dealer want 3.5x guide, it is not even close to worth it, if fact he wants almost as much as another dealer sold me a PCGS XF for for not long ago. This coin is a F-12.
Beyond the obvious don't buy it if you don't like the price, what do this make you think about everything else being offered?
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
0
Comments
He might have paid a ton for it.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
bob
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I assume that's the piece you're talking about.
What do you want for your XF?
On the face of it, it doesn't make sense, until you realize that certain pieces just can't easily be had in certain grades, and collectors who want a consistently nice set are willing to pay a premium (and compete with one another) to get something that matches their sets.
If you reject this idea and truly think it is overpriced, then play the waiting game as others have suggested, and perhaps the seller will be more receptive to an offer.
However... a "well known and larger dealer" doesn't just pull a high number like that out of thin air. IMO either your perception of the market value is faulty or he has a specific customer targeted who is willing to pay that much. JMHO
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I could ask $500 for a common Peace in 65, but I won't sell it either!
100% Positive BST transactions
a) the XF coin sold too cheap (which can happen on Seated coinage where price guide are typically incorrect, as you know)
b) the XF coin was undesirable for reason of cleaning, or scratches, etc. Sometimes these are graded but they won't command the same price as a wonderful, original coin of the same date.
The simple fact is that the more challenging series of the 18th and 19th centuries are much difficult to value than the late 19th and 20th century coins like Mercs, Walkers, Morgans, etc. Better date Seated coins are really hard to locate in choice condition, as are some Barber issues, Bust coinage, etc. That doesn't mean the seller isn't asking too much. As the buyer, it's up to you to determine your comfort level and make the best decision you can. Sounds to me like you are very knowledgeable and you'll make the right decision.
Actually, his coin and he is free to hold on to it for a while.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If I can buy a coin I want to own at a price that I can justify, I buy it. If not, I move on. There are some coins that I would pay multiples of PCGS price guide to have in my collection. Other coins that I would not pay a fraction of PCGS price guide.
Now that that issue is out of the way, WTH is going to happen with the 'Canes? If they play is poorly on both sides of the ball as they did last night, I wish they would get the death penalty. It will save me the aggravation of watching the games.
In those cases...you charge what the market bears, as in an auction.
If everything he has is priced like that he will go out of business in 87 days though.
<< <i>What difference does it make what we think of this dealer's pricing? It's his stuff, he can price it however he wants. >>
Exactly. Anything else would be a tragic step from free market capitalism into the depths of socialism.
<< <i>What difference does it make what we think of this dealer's pricing? It's his stuff, he can price it however he wants. >>
......................................................................................................................................................................................................
Exactly.
One can often find the same thing elsewhere in similar quality for much less. The dealer apparently knows that eventually they will find someone willing to pay 3X or
3.5X for the coin. There's not much you or I can do about that.
roadrunner
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>
Now that that issue is out of the way, WTH is going to happen with the 'Canes? If they play is poorly on both sides of the ball as they did last night, I wish they would get the death penalty. It will save me the aggravation of watching the games.
Keep in mind there were 8 players out (maybe 7 if you bench Harris) and 6 were defense 4 starter and 2 active in rotation. Maryland lost lasy year on the last play of the game. It could have been far worse.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
There's a coin I've been looking at at two different dealers, both coins are PCGS and CAC and they're 50% apart on a very rare coin. Neither has sold in several months, so who knows who's right on the price?
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>PCGS price guide is probably not the go-to source for prices on circulated seated coinage. I also think some very knowledgeable people, including TomB, Roadrunner and John Feigenbaum make very good points. Finally, there is the school of marketing that says if you completely overcharge for something, someone will beat a path to your door. Think Starbucks. I have no idea if the coin in question qualifies, but it is another possibility. >>
Not withstanding your comments, I have been very impressed by the real time pricing and updates PCGS is offering. I find it combined with auction results to be very close to market values.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Sounds like he has a fish on the hook and you'll soon be in the net.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Ron
<< <i>I've never considered the prices that some specialist dealers ask for their coins to be representative of the real market. It's sort of like DeBeers and the diamond trade.
One can often find the same thing elsewhere in similar quality for much less. The dealer apparently knows that eventually they will find someone willing to pay 3X or
3.5X for the coin. There's not much you or I can do about that.
roadrunner >>
Well said!! That also covers a lot of other hobbies and even daily needed goods. Some people do not like to shop around and they are happy to buy from a NAME at a high price. It makes them feel special and superior to the bargain shoppers.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>I do not want to mention names but a well known and larger dealer has listed a not at all rare coin in PCGS Fine at 3.5 PCGS guide. The guide may be a little below the market value of the coin but it is not close to finest known at one of the lowest graded of the dozens in holders.
I offered PCGS guide on Ebay it was auto rejected then offered 1.5x again rejected so for the heck of it I offer 2x - more than any auction result by far and rejected yet again.
This dealer want 3.5x guide, it is not even close to worth it, if fact he wants almost as much as another dealer sold me a PCGS XF for for not long ago. This coin is a F-12.
Beyond the obvious don't buy it if you don't like the price, what do this make you think about everything else being offered? >>
you can check out my listing on ebay. i have plenty i believe are worth 1.5-3.5x pcgs price estimates. i ship fast and sometimes give free coins with orders!
.
.
sold for a certain price are barking..... the guides and auction records are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I don't like to pay any more than I have to like most people, but I will indeed pay more for quality, rather than just going by guides.
And when I sell something from my collection, if someone else wants to point out auction records to me (and they have) I tell them they should have bought that one.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Looking for Atlanta $1-$20 Series 1928-present + Stars , Raw or Graded !! &
FR-1509 ,FR-1509*,FR-1510,FR-1510*,FR-1511*,FR-1512*,FR-1514*
in PCGS 66 or 67PPQ**
EBAY ITEMS
Check out - BrettEldredge.com !! Hometown Singer
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
We saw lots of large cents sell for well over 3.5x price guide in the recent high profile collection large cent auctions.
The OP is willing to pay 2x price guide so the price guide seems to be out the window. I'd need to see the coin before giving my opinion and even then, you may need to be a specialist in the series to figure it out.
--Jerry
<< <i>The collective mentality seems to be to bash the dealer based on one side of the story but it is clear there is something special about this coin or a large error in the PCGS price guide.
We saw lots of large cents sell for well over 3.5x price guide in the recent high profile collection large cent auctions.
The OP is willing to pay 2x price guide so the price guide seems to be out the window. I'd need to see the coin before giving my opinion and even then, you may need to be a specialist in the series to figure it out.
--Jerry >>
Agree---until we can see what this coin looks like we can only guess and speculate what is going on.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>What difference does it make what we think of this dealer's pricing? It's his stuff, he can price it however he wants. >>
Could not be said any better!!!!!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
<< <i>I do not want to mention names but a well known and larger dealer has listed a not at all rare coin in PCGS Fine at 3.5 PCGS guide. The guide may be a little below the market value of the coin but it is not close to finest known at one of the lowest graded of the dozens in holders.
I offered PCGS guide on Ebay it was auto rejected then offered 1.5x again rejected so for the heck of it I offer 2x - more than any auction result by far and rejected yet again.
This dealer want 3.5x guide, it is not even close to worth it, if fact he wants almost as much as another dealer sold me a PCGS XF for for not long ago. This coin is a F-12.
Beyond the obvious don't buy it if you don't like the price, what do this make you think about everything else being offered? >>
As we used to say in the coin shop to people who wanted to buy our collector coins at the "XYZ Price Guide" price, "If you like XYZ's price, buy their coin."
That said, you made a respectful off, and he declined. Free market economics at it's best. Eventually one of you will decide that he did the right thing.
TD
So, for example, when I get offered an XF40 seated dime with a pop of 2 at 3 times the CU price, I use all the above to decide. But it's ALWAYS a gut call. Usually, on rare coins, you can't go wrong if some of the variables work out.
<< <i>Everyone here is making a good point but the one thing I haven't seen stressed enough is the fact that the pricing guides are simply "guides". On often-traded (like most Morgan dollars of all values, modern coinage, etc) the price guides, especially the CU pricing is very accurate because the folks that track these prices have a lot of data to work with. When it comes to seldom-traded coins, the pricing guides are almost irrelevant. As wholesale buyers, we use these guides as one piece of information. We also use auction history, past pricing data, experience (the big intangible), as well as the quality of the coin. Every coin we buy and sell simply comes down to an equation of whether we think another buyer will pay more.
So, for example, when I get offered an XF40 seated dime with a pop of 2 at 3 times the CU price, I use all the above to decide. But it's ALWAYS a gut call. Usually, on rare coins, you can't go wrong if some of the variables work out. >>
Well said, John. And here is a real example from an auction a few days ago:
The PCGS Price Guide for a 1797 Gripped Edge half cent in Good-4 is $22,500 and VG-8 is $37,000. The PCGS G-6 1797 Gripped Edge half cent sold for $195,500 incl. the buyers fee. The price paid is 5.28 times the VG value of $37,000 in the Price Guide. Admittedly, this is a very rare coin, but it amplifies John's point.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Lance.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>seateddime---your thread title refers to this coin as "a common coin". If this is the case, why not just wait for another example to surface? If it's truly "a common coin", there should be others available in the marketplace now or in the near future. >>
If I currently own about 40-50 of them raw I can tell you, at least as far as why I track, they are not rare. The coin I am refering too surfaces at least 25-35 times a year and if not hoarded by myself and one other a lot more.
Perry, keep in mind I did not name the coin or the dealer out of respect for them, I did not put this question out there to in any way create an attack on the seller but rather a value vs. pricing issue. For that reason I will not even say what the coin is, only that I have over 40 of them and I know another guy with about the same, they surface often enough and it is a cheaper coin that most would not bother slabbing.
Another example will surface and I have purchased a few this year already.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
If something was really that "common" in such a state of preservation, people wouldn't be bidding to the moon for a nice specimen compared to the average dreck for the grade.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
It's amusing how dealers chime in about the guide just being a guide when they're selling, but often shove it in your face as the gospel when they're buying.
<< <i>IMO, original 1861-S dimes are worth it.
I assume that's the piece you're talking about.
What do you want for your XF? >>