Really confused about Fugios...

Realone

so I got one from the NY Bank hoard and you guys told me that it was normal to have all the design elements underneath the obv and rev, and that is what I see but in addtion to seeing the date a second time underneath I also see it in another location on the obv, so that makes two places where it appears underneath........can this be normal.

Broadstruck

Watch out as viewing it through the acrylic could be playing tricks on your eyes.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>so I got one from the NY Bank hoard and you guys told me that it was normal to have all the design elements underneath the obv and rev >>



I think we said that it was not uncommon to see evidence of severe die clashing on some varieties.

BillJones

I'm confused.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>so I got one from the NY Bank hoard and you guys told me that it was normal to have all the design elements underneath the obv and rev >>



I think we said that it was not uncommon to see evidence of severe die clashing on some varieties. >>


I recall that being the nature of the conversation.

RO, have you cracked it out yet?

ColonialCoinUnion

In the absence of some extremely detailed photos showing us what you are talking about, I do not believe anyone here is going to be able to alleviate your confusion.

BillJones

The Fugio cents were made on something called a drop press. It was not like a screw press when there a little more control over the up and down motion. The drop press had the obverse die raised like guillotine and dropped on the planchet to strike the coin. There has been a lot of controversy over the years about how planchets were placed and ejected from the between the dies at the first U.S. mint.

I’d be willing to wager that with the drop press it was all done by hand. I don’t know about you, but I had a choice between losing my fingers or preventing the dies from getting clash marks, I’d let ‘em get the clash marks.

NewEnglandRarities

<< <i>The Fugio cents were made on something called a drop press. It was not like a screw press when there a little more control over the up and down motion. The drop press had the obverse die raised like guillotine and dropped on the planchet to strike the coin. There has been a lot of controversy over the years about how planchets were placed and ejected from the between the dies at the first U.S. mint.

I’d be willing to wager that with the drop press it was all done by hand. I don’t know about you, but I had a choice between losing my fingers or preventing the dies from getting clash marks, I’d let ‘em get the clash marks. >>



I agree! Also keep in mind it is very common to see slight doubling on colonial coins from this process. Without a picture I am assuming of course you can see some slight doubling of the legends.

BillJones

Well, maybe the piece is double struck.

This was not the U.S. mint. In fact it was a barely legal mint that was converting borrowed government copper into what turned out to be underweight coppers, not even cents.

And Able Buel, the die sinker had been caught raising, I believe, ten pence notes into ten pound notes. For that the courts took it easy on him because he was young and it was his first offense. Instead of putting him to death, they branded him with a "B" on his forehead, clipped off the tip of his ear and threw him into jail.

But they did cut him a break with the branding and clipping. They placed the brand high up on his forehead so that he could cover it with his hair, and they let him put the piece of his ear on the tip of his tongue on the off chance that he might be able to re-attach it. I dare say he wasn’t able to save that tip of his ear, and I hope he didn’t go bald.

Therefore it wasn't surprising when Able and company flew the coop when they found out the boss, James Jarvis, would not be able to fulfill his government contract.

ColonialCoinUnion

Here - maybe this will help:

Broadstruck

<< <i>And Able Buel, the die sinker had been caught raising, I believe, ten pence notes into ten pound notes. For that the courts took it easy on him because he was young and it was his first offense. Instead of putting him to death, they branded him with a "B" on his forehead, clipped off the tip of his ear and threw him into jail.

But they did cut him a break with the branding and clipping. They placed the brand high up on his forehead so that he could cover it with his hair, and they let him put the piece of his ear on the tip of his tongue on the off chance that he might be able to re-attach it. I dare say he wasn’t able to save that tip of his ear, and I hope he didn’t go bald.

Therefore it wasn't surprising when Able and company flew the coop when they found out the boss, James Jarvis, would not be able to fulfill his government contract. >>



BillJones, Wowzers as that info was far more interesting then the cleaned colonial in question!

savoyspecial

slight correction Bill Jones......per Tom DeLorey it Buell was convicted of "altering 1762 Connecticut 1 shilling and 2 shilling, 6 pence notes into 30 shilling notes" and the letter branded into his brow was a 'C' for counterfeiter