Can anyone tell me if this 1909-S VDB is the real thing

Gerard

Just bought this and wanted to get some opinions about its
authenticity. Sorry but these are the best pics I have.

Goldbully

I feel like I'm in outer space looking down at your copper penny!!!

dollarsandcents

You bought it without being certain of its authenticity? That sounds backwards to me.

TexasNationals

I see no pics?

ambro51

OK. Look on the Reverse, at the VDB initials. On a Philadelphia Mint issue, the second period comes as close to the D as the first does to the V.

Now, on a San Francisco mint coin, the second period will be much further toward the middle, between the D and B, than toward the D. It will appear further from the D than the first one dies from the V.

Does that make sense? Thats the diagnostic.

tightbudget

Doesn't look right to me. The shape of the S appears off.

ArizonaJack

Nope

adamlaneus

i am curious as to what the forum experts have to say about the mintmark


A 1909-S VDB from coin facts:




Doesn't quite look the same. But then, there probably were multiple obverse dies.

TexasNationals

I agree the S is wrong, sorry

ambro51

the VDB periods seem to be in the Philadelphia Mint arrangement V. D. B. rather than V. D . B.

(and the S is wrong)

Tdec1000

The S is not correct and Lincoln looks funny.

ambro51

heres my svdb reverse

AMRC

Need a big close-up of the mint mark. Look for a die chip in the inner-upper loop of the s. If it is there, you are most probably good. If not? Well let's not go there.

stevek

Sorry to sound so harsh, and I've been looking to get one of these at the right price, but anyone buying this coin not in a PCGS slab or other reputable TPG, in my opinion is a glutton for punishment.

CoinCoins

that's an obvious counterfeit

added mintmark... that S is stupid looking

atarian

oversized S to me. Hope they have a return policy

adamlaneus

So...I take it that there is one and only one sort of 'S' expected on this coin.

Obviously i'm not a cent collector. However, I do know that this is a key item and requires careful scrutiny.

1Mike1

I vote it's counterfeit.

braddick

Chinese knockoff.
I own one just like it. The textured portrait (among other things) is the tell.

GrumpyEd

From that pic it looks like the mintmark is too big.

There is only one style of S used and only 4 different mintmark locations.

This PCGS article shows the 4 positions:

look here

The dot position on S-VDBs is different like Ambro said but I can't see it clear enough in the pics.
The real S-VDBs ONLY have it in the position shown in these pics so if it's wrong it's fake.
I've never seen proof that absolutely no P-VDBs have it in that position but every one I've looked at has it in the position as in these pics. There were a lot of dies used for P-VDBs so it's possible that some had the other position.
So to be safe it's a one way rule, it can prove the coin fake but alone it does not prove it real.

The VDB used on P and S cents:

giorgio11

<< <i>So...I take it that there is one and only one sort of 'S' expected on this coin.

Obviously i'm not a cent collector. However, I do know that this is a key item and requires careful scrutiny. >>



Yes, they only used a single mintmark punch, so all show the groove through the top of the S. There are, however, four different known obverse dies, each with the same-style mintmark in slightly different locations. The coin in the OP looks clearly bogus to me.

PerryHall

<< <i>I agree the S is wrong, sorry >>



Yup. Wrong S mintmark. Probably an added mintmark although there are struck counterfeits in the marketplace including some from China.

BillJones

The "S" mint mark is not the right shape. It should be "fat" in the middle, and that one is thin. It's a fake coin all the way.

drwstr123

<< <i>Chinese knockoff.
I own one just like it. The textured portrait (among other things) is the tell. >>


That's what I saw.

IrishMikey

<< <i>

<< <i>Chinese knockoff.
I own one just like it. The textured portrait (among other things) is the tell. >>


That's what I saw. >>


Definitely agree -- your coin is a Chinese counterfeit. I have seen several that look
exactly like this one.

AUandAG

When the second "U" in UNUM is larger than the first, it's a good clue.

bob

BillJones

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Chinese knockoff.
I own one just like it. The textured portrait (among other things) is the tell. >>


That's what I saw. >>


Definitely agree -- your coin is a Chinese counterfeit. I have seen several that look
exactly like this one. >>



Yes, the partial wire rim at the bottom of the obverse is a tip-off. I don't recall ever seeing a 1909-S-VDB Lincoln with a wire rim, but I've seen a wire rim on several Chinese counterfeit Morgan Dollars.

Shamika

<< <i>From that pic it looks like the mintmark is too big.

There is only one style of S used and only 4 different mintmark locations.

This PCGS article shows the 4 positions:

look here

The dot position on S-VDBs is different like Ambro said but I can't see it clear enough in the pics.
The real S-VDBs ONLY have it in the position shown in these pics so if it's wrong it's fake.
I've never seen proof that absolutely no P-VDBs have it in that position but every one I've looked at has it in the position as in these pics. There were a lot of dies used for P-VDBs so it's possible that some had the other position.
So to be safe it's a one way rule, it can prove the coin fake but alone it does not prove it real.

The VDB used on P and S cents:

>>








GrumpyEd - Thanks for this diagnostic. I didn't know about this one.



Gerard - Sorry to say, but your S-VDB appears to be a counterfeit. The S was an immediate red flag when I opened this thread.