EDIT: Grade is In & I'm NOT happy - NEWP - Merc Variety...what do you think PCGS will do with th

keyman64

EDIT - After 24 Business Days, the REGULAR SUBMISSION Wait is over and it all has been a complete waste of time and money. What a piece of . UGH! I am not pleased. The reverse is a minimum 66+, possibly a 67 based on so many coins that I have in PCGS plastic and so many 67 coins I have looked at. The obverse is an easy 66. I am just so beside myself. I feel like melting the stupid thing along with the coin it was replacing. I have MS65FB coins that have gashes all over the obverse and reverse....and yet, this is somehow EQUAL to those? Yes, this grade came in today as a 65FB. What would you do? I have so much freakin' money tied up in these two stupid no-demand coins now it just sucks the suck out of suck. Did I submit this wrong? I sent it in as an NGC Cross in the holder. It was NGC 66FB. Was it even eligible for a PLUS grade? Should I have cracked it out before sending it in? Do I have to pay AGAIN and send it back for the possibility for a plus? Can I call them and tell them to just keep it and send it through for PLUS? Would they do that? I'm really frustrated and I just don't have any hair to pull out. Should I go to the shooting range with it and video tape it being shot with an AR-15 or something? These varieties are hard to find and once I finally think I find the one I need...I am told it is just a piece of junk. I am venting yes, bashing our lovely host, no. I am not saying they are wrong...I am just stating the facts as I see them and comparing similar graded coins of the same series that I own and have in hand. This just doesn't make sense to me. I'm confused, frustrated etc and clearly need a break. Did that little carbon spot cost this coin between 1 and possibly 2 full points? Please, if any of you have the answers to any of my questions I would really appreciate some answers to my questions. 15 people thought it would grade higher than it did. There is not chatter on the jaw...that was either the NGC holder or lighting or something else.




Original Message-
I recently had an opportunity to replace my 1941-S/S FS-501 MS62FB example(was in a 64FB ANACS holder prior to the big PCGS downgrade) with one that I believe is a bit better so I jumped at the chance. It is currently in an NGC Holder that has a few nasty scratches. What do you think PCGS will do with it? Currently the finest graded at PCGS is a single MS66FB example. There are 6 MS FB examples right now.


Here is the 62FB example it will replace in my set.

crypto79

MS65FB due to the spot by the date and chatter by the Jaw. Still a Gem IMO

keyman64

That darn SPOT!!!!! That is the only thing that really bothers me about the coin...there's always something I guess. Maybe the Cat in the Hat knows how to get that spot out?

Edit: I do not have the coin in hand yet but I don't think there is anything going on with the chin...not sure. The holder clearly needs to be replaced.

Broadstruck

<< <i>That darn SPOT!!!!! That is the only thing that really bothers me about the coin...there's always something I guess. Maybe the Cat in the Hat knows how to get that spot out? >>



Of all the different varieties of Spots this Merc could have I do not find this one bothersome.

DIMEMAN

It's hard to get an NGC Mercury (UNC) to cross at grade, BUT I think this one has a shot. The spot by the date shouldn't hurt the coin. And it has really really nice bands.

JMHO

keyman64

For The Evening Crowd.

djdilliodon

That is a major upgrade from the one you had! Not my series but im thinking 66FB!

keyman64

<< <i>That is a major upgrade from the one you had! Not my series but im thinking 66FB! >>

Thanks. These things do not come along too often(varieties that I desire) so when they do, I try to jump all over them. Even though I am not a fan of the "spot", I think it was a pretty good upgrade....we will see in about a month.

Raybo

66FB IMHO.

relicsncoins

I voted 64+FB. I think there is a little bit too much chatter on the jaw and neck to get into a 5 holder.

JJM

FB for sure

GaCoinGuy

fcloud

That spot is going to work agaist you, but it may go 64FB

bolivarshagnasty

That is a nicely struck reverse!! I'd go 67FB on the reverse with a 66 on the obverse for a net 66FB. I'm not as concerned with the spot as others are. Shag

jesbroken

I believe it will garner a 65FB grade. Beautiful specimen. I do not think the spot will hold it back from a 66 but the chatter on her cheek and in her hair. Love the 62 also. Absolutely a great pickup. Congrats.
Jim

DIMEMAN

I think the "chatter" on the jaw is only visible due to the size of the photo.

It should get a 66FB.

keyman64

Update in 1st Post. Please answer some of my questions if you can.

guitarwes

<< <i>Should I go to the shooting range with it and video tape it being shot with an AR-15 or something? >>



Since I'm a gun guy also, I'd kinda like to see this.

keyman64

<< <i>

<< <i>Should I go to the shooting range with it and video tape it being shot with an AR-15 or something? >>



Since I'm a gun guy also, I'd kinda like to see this.

>>

I'm seriously thinking about it...or maybe taking a blow torch to it...or a welding instrument...I would not have complained about a 66FB even though I thought it had a chance for 66+FB or 67FB. Between the purchase of the two coins, the grading of the two coins, the shipping for the two coins.... A complete waste of time and money. Why do I bother? Why do I put myself through this? The ANACS 64FB got downgraded 2 full points when submitted to PCGS...I am guessing because of the toning because I have 63FB coins with just as many marks. I wasn't surprised when that verdict came in with a 2 point downgrade...disappointed though, yes. But now with this one getting crapped on, I am really disturbed.

Maybe I should DO THIS to the two coins in their slabs. What do you think?

oreville

keyman64:

Once you get the coin back from PCGS, send it back in for a spot review just to see if they can get rid of that spot.

I think it will garner an MS-64FB until you get rid of that spot.

Ok, then I was tougher than PCGS!!! LOL. Probably the big picture did me in. That usually happens.

But do send it in for spot review to get rid of that spot.

keyman64

<< <i>keyman64:

Once you get the coin back from PCGS, send it back in for a spot review just to see if they can get rid of that spot.

I think it will garner an MS-64FB until you get rid of that spot. >>

This was graded 65FB, so you are saying it needs to be downgraded again? Great!

oreville

keyman64:

You said:

<< <i>A complete waste of time and money. Why do I bother? Why do I put myself through this? >>



I disagree. You are getting a priceless education on the nuances of grading. You are learning fast. You will someday appreciate the hard knocks of this education as many of us have done so over the years!

Keep up the good effort.

keyman64

<< <i>keyman64:

You said:

<< <i>A complete waste of time and money. Why do I bother? Why do I put myself through this? >>



I disagree. You are getting a priceless education on the nuances of grading. You are learning fast. You will someday appreciate the hard knocks of this education as many of us have done so over the years!

Keep up the good effort. >>

Crack it out and send it back in? Don't crack it out but send it back in and ask if they can get the spot off the coin and re-grade? How does that work?

oreville

<< <i>Don't crack it out but send it back in and ask if they can get the spot off the coin and re-grade? How does that work? >>



You send it in without cracking it out and ask for a spot review. Tell them where the spot is that you are concerned about. There is usually no charge except you pay for shipping and handling etc but they might have changed the fee structure so you should check with PCGS.

DarkStar

I have no idea what grade it should be, but that's a pretty darn good rant!

magikbilly

<< A complete waste of time and money. Why do I bother? Why do I put myself through this? >>

<<I disagree. You are getting a priceless education on the nuances of grading. You are learning fast. You will someday appreciate the hard knocks of this education as many of us have done so over the years!>>


I disagree with your disagreement - with all due respect to our considerable host, these are still opinions and we know grading parameters drift from the interest in what is left in OGH's that have not been cracked out and resubmitted etc. The coin is what it is and was - the grade is in question now to you it seems because of an opinion, and you have spent additional funds over acquiring the coin to get to this point.

<<Crack it out and send it back in? Don't crack it out but send it back in and ask if they can get the spot off the coin and re-grade? How does that work? >>

Oh, That's where you spend still more money on this. Enjoy! If I were buying that coin it would sell to me on its merits alone, and those would be limited to the qualities of the coin. Buy the coin, not the holder - does that mean after you get the coin you start trying to get it into yet another holder? I thought it was all about the coin......trust yourself. If you simply must spend more $ on this, see if you can get a greenjeanie I guess., if you wish to toil for foil stickers go ahead. I'd buy another nice coin.


Eric

DIMEMAN

Like I have always said...it is hard to cross at grade from NGC. There is nothing wrong with a 65FB!!!

Keep it like it is......DON'T throw anymore money at it.....that will just make you madder and you could go postal!!

relicsncoins

Maybe standards have tightened a bit. I sent in a 42 P half that I thought was a for sure 66, and it came back a 64+ Talk about a waste of money, I used a regular submission for a $50 coin.

Bankerbob56

Was it even eligible for a PLUS grade?

NO!!!!

Don Willis states in his Q&A that crossover submissions ARE NOT ELIGIBLE for Secure Plus grading!!

leothelyon

I've had plenty of success removing carbon spots with a toothpick and high magnification. Perhaps that's all it needs!


Leo

llafoe

<< <i>I have no idea what grade it should be, but that's a pretty darn good rant! >>



It's all about the rant, not the coin!

llafoe

<< <i>Was it even eligible for a PLUS grade?

NO!!!!

Don Willis states in his Q&A that crossover submissions ARE NOT ELIGIBLE for Secure Plus grading!!

>>



Correct, not eligible for SecurePlus... but still eligible for a "+."

oreville

The primary reason I suggested the PCGS spot review is NOT to try to get a higher grade but to possibly remove a spot that might be slowly destroying the coin. The spot could be stable or be getting worse.

Taking proactive action to deal with that spot never hurts.

As I said before, I believe there is no PCGS fee to perform a spot review.

MadMarty

What date was the submission received? I'm on business day 25 today.

llafoe

I'm on day 20... guess it'll be next week!

stealer

So PCGS grades harder than you thought, why are you screaming bloody murder?

fcloud

I feel your pain.

DIMEMAN

I don't feel any pain!! What's wrong with 65FB.

Pain is when it bags and doesn't get the variety!!!!!

fcloud

<< <i>I don't feel any pain!! What's wrong with 65FB.

Pain is when it bags and doesn't get the variety!!!!! >>

keyman64

<< <i>I don't feel any pain!! What's wrong with 65FB.

Pain is when it bags and doesn't get the variety!!!!! >>

If I thought it was lower than 66FB, I would not have bought it. In my eyes I was paying for a 4 point upgrade, not a 3 point upgrade. That's the pain. There is a big difference between a POP 4/1 and a POP 2/0. At least to me. I just assume aim for the best and not mess with the rest. The pain is that I have $320 into the two coins of the same variety, am perfectly happy with one of them but not happy with the holder. So now I have to consider spending more money on the same variety, hunting for another one possibly. I thought I was done with this variety but I am clearly not. That's a pain. I want to try and have the best or darn close to the best of each variety within budgetary reason. That's my goal. My budget does not allow me to compete with so many people around here on so many coins but by going after the varieties I have a chance since hardly anyone wants them. It is entertainment to me. It was joy to me but now I feel no joy. I was close on this one and I feel pain that my hunt continues for this variety and so many others.

19Lyds

This reminds me of the NGC MS65 I bought because I thought it would upgrade to PCGS MS66.

I submitted the crossover and it came back an MS64!

I cracked it out, resubmitted raw and it came back an MS65. I was done with the crackout upgrade game.

The reality is, it doesn't matter what you personally think. It only matters what the graders come to consensus on and if you want to toss the dice and play the game then you need to learn to take the losses with the wins.

First off, the coin has a carbon spot.
Second off, assuming that NGC didn't have a clue on what the correct grade was is just that. An assumption by a non-professional regarding his/her own coin.
Third off, "Ownership adds a point". David Hall

You have to be very, very good at grading to have successful upgrades. That skill cannot be based upon the opinions of other non-professional because unless the coin has a glaring and grade limiting fault, they'll always be on your side. It's not their money so they have nothing to lose.

Instead of taking your anger out on the coin, take some time to learn from this experience with the most important lesson being that a TPG may not see it your way.

Regardless of what the consensus of the forum is, it's still PCGS's call.

Fairlaneman

Is this what Mercury Dime Registry Set collecting has come to?

If you liked the coin before sending it to PCGS just what in the heck does a 1 point difference make?

From your picture I say you were lucky to get a 5 out of the coin. I would have looked for a 4 out of it with a shot at 5. If it got 6 I would fall over in dis-belief.

Welcome to PCGS Mercury Dime Grading.

Ken

robkool

You should of crack that dime out of it's NGC tomb... I've made that mistake a lot !!! The problem is that the graders can't see the entire coin's rim to make the final determination of a grade. The rim & strike is a key factor to the coin's grade. I recommend you resubmit the coin raw. You should get a higher grade on the next try.
Good luck...

TwoSides2aCoin

...reminds me of the short kid who failed a spelling test.

The grade came in and he ran up to his teacher's desk yelling : "I'm not Happy !"
She looked down at him and said " Oh ? Which one are you ? "

seanq

<< <i>I want to try and have the best or darn close to the best of each variety within budgetary reason. That's my goal. >>



The coin has not changed since you submitted it, unless you're talking above about having the best holders.


Sean Reynolds

GaCoinGuy

<< <i>I have so much freakin' money tied up in these two stupid no-demand coins now it just sucks the suck out of suck. >>



No offense intended, but what was your motivation in buying these? To collect or flip? There's the spot on the obverse, chatter on the jaw, and hits on the reverse; I think you were doing good to get 65. Still a nice coin though. If your intent is to sell, would the sell price be worth spending the extra $ on? I'd keep it, or sell as is and look for a better one. JMHO.

magikbilly

"...am perfectly happy with one of them but not happy with the holder."

What are you collecting again? What do you think the coins merits and grade are?

"The reality is, it doesn't matter what you personally think."

Not my reality.


Best,
Eric


"Look! I made a 6!"
"Nooo, you made a piece of paper with a number on it"

relicsncoins

<< <i>...reminds me of the short kid who failed a spelling test.

The grade came in and he ran up to his teacher's desk yelling : "I'm not Happy !"
She looked down at him and said " Oh ? Which one are you ? " >>





everytime I hear that, it makes me chuckle.

golfer72

Seems PCGS invariably grades crossovers that are not cracked out one point lower than the current grade. When they are cracked out and submitted they tend to grade closer to the original grade. Its been well documented here. They are biased when they see the coin in another companies slab.

DonWillis

They are biased when they see the coin in another companies slab.

That statement is completely untrue. We would like all the nice coins in PCGS holders. Over the past 12 months 42% of all crossover submissions have crossed (that number includes "cross at any grade").

As has been said many times, if all of a coin can't be seen because it is hidden by the holder, you can't expect our graders to grade what they can't see.

My advice - either crack the coin out (if you are sure it is problem free) or send it in to cross at any grade. Once in a PCGS holder you can always send it back through as a regrade. Regrades guarantee the coin grade will not go down plus the coin is cracked out and it is graded raw.

JakSunn

I'm thinking the luster breaks on the lower cheek area w/ or w/o the spot will keep it from being a 66. But that's just my opinion, YMMV.