2009 Small Date ??
Papi
Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
Has anyone noticed the 2009 Formative "SMALL DATE" version?
I've found them in a bank roll. They were easy to pick out from the normal coins in the roll.
They're noticeable with the naked eye, and can easily be seen.
At first I thought maybe it was a weak strike, but when compared to "normal" coins; all other elements were as strongly struck and detailed.
Under magnification, it looks like the zeros have a larger center, and the 2009 looks thinner overall.
I've searched thousands of these coins, and these are definitely different somehow.
I don't have a camera for pictures. Maybe someone else has noticed these that has a camera.
I'd like to get some theories before I spend the money on a camera.
Anyone else?
I've found them in a bank roll. They were easy to pick out from the normal coins in the roll.
They're noticeable with the naked eye, and can easily be seen.
At first I thought maybe it was a weak strike, but when compared to "normal" coins; all other elements were as strongly struck and detailed.
Under magnification, it looks like the zeros have a larger center, and the 2009 looks thinner overall.
I've searched thousands of these coins, and these are definitely different somehow.
I don't have a camera for pictures. Maybe someone else has noticed these that has a camera.
I'd like to get some theories before I spend the money on a camera.
Anyone else?
0
Comments
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Just kidding. I'm with you. Get a camera.
...how about a scan, papi?
wake up son, this is 2010. digital photography is a breeze.
We need some pics next to a normal one to say.
What he said.....
<< <i>What he said..... >>
Then buy me a camera, just so you can see.
I asked if anyone saw a similar thing.
<< <i>A thick vs thin date could be from the hubbing of one die.
We need some pics next to a normal one to say. >>
How could it be hubbing, if it didn't affect the whole die?
Like I said, only the date is different.
If you saw one, you wouldn't need my pic. You'd know yourself.
That's why I'm asking; "has anyone else seen this?"
Based on the pic requests, thus far, I'd say NO
<< <i>
<< <i>A thick vs thin date could be from the hubbing of one die.
We need some pics next to a normal one to say. >>
How could it be hubbing, if it didn't affect the whole die?
Like I said, only the date is different.
If you saw one, you wouldn't need my pic. You'd know yourself.
That's why I'm asking; "has anyone else seen this?"
Based on the pic requests, thus far, I'd say NO >>
...i don't think you understand why we want a pic. WE WANT TO SEE IT!!!!! that way we could critique it,
savvy?
know about it. it maybe a case of die-wear and/or striking pressure that makes one
date appear smaller than another.
to add: i hope to be proven wrong
<< <i>hate to spoil the party but, if there were small and large date `09 1c we would already
know about it. it maybe a case of die-wear and/or striking pressure that makes one
date appear smaller than another.
to add: i hope to be proven wrong
>>
I was thinking perhaps overpolished die myself.
TD
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>hate to spoil the party but, if there were small and large date `09 1c we would already
know about it. it maybe a case of die-wear and/or striking pressure that makes one
date appear smaller than another.
to add: i hope to be proven wrong
>>
I was thinking perhaps overpolished die myself.
TD >>
Agree 100%. Optical allusion.
Then buy me a camera, just so you can see.
Easy big fella, I'm on your side.....
Maybe ask Daniel Carr if he has made any small date 2009 cents....since there were none minted (we would have heard about it by now), maybe he decided to make some for the "fantasy" of it
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I'd like to get some theories before I spend the money on a camera.
I'd like to get some theories before I spend the money on a camera. >>
I would think that John Wexler, James Wiles and Billy Crawford would have noticed this before now and quite frankly, without pictures it would be difficult to form a theory.
The dies for these coins all came, presumably, from a single master hub.
For reference, the process is as follows:
Galvano or CNC output to Master Hub (positive image) to Master Die (negative image) to Working Hub (positive) to Working Die (negative)
Die doubling occurs during the creation of the Working Hub or Working Die phase of the operation.
IMO, for a true "Small Date" version to exist there would have to have been a second generation of the Master Hub.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>hate to spoil the party but, if there were small and large date `09 1c we would already
know about it. it maybe a case of die-wear and/or striking pressure that makes one
date appear smaller than another.
to add: i hope to be proven wrong
>>
I was thinking perhaps overpolished die myself.
TD >>
That is a distinct possibility but wouldn't the coin also exhibit a smaller LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST and/or some serious die scratching?
The name is LEE!
Nice camera!!!
That one probably takes better pictures than my cool pix does.
<< <i>Ill build you a camera
>>
You live in a cave there buddy??
The name is LEE!
Hoard the keys.
Here's your photos. There's a definite difference. The inside area of the zeros appears much wider, and the entire date thinner.
Yet the rest of the design seems to be the same; letters of Liberty & IGWT, beard etc.
Here's a link. The listing is not mine. So, again, I'm not the only one that noticed.
2009 Formative Small Date
...(i'm forming a thought, be right back)
However, it accurately shows the difference in the date. This is visible with the naked eye.
It is not an abraded die. The lines and numbers are crisp and clear. There are no polishing marks near the date or in the field. This die is in its original state.
I have these coins, but I don't have camera equipment to shoot these. This was discussed earlier in this thread.
I wish I had the camera equipment to put this side by side request to rest, but I don't.
That's why I posted the link to this ebay listing. At least you can see what I'm seeing. There is a definite difference in the date.
When I found these it jumped out at me like a 55 DDO, it was that obviously different from the other coins in the roll.
<< <i>The ones I found were in bank rolls.
I wish I had the camera equipment to put this side by side request to rest, but I don't.
That's why I posted the link to this ebay listing. At least you can see what I'm seeing. There is a definite difference in the date.
When I found these it jumped out at me like a 55 DDO, it was that obviously different from the other coins in the roll. >>
...perhaps you'll get a nice camera for christmas and then you can shoot some nice examples for us.
If you want, mail one of each to me and I'll image them for you and send the back... you need to turn on your PM option though so I can give you my address.
<< <i>Papi...
If you want, mail one of each to me and I'll image them for you and send the back... you need to turn on your PM option though so I can give you my address. >>
Thanks for the offer. PM is on now
but better pictures in better light and taken at the same angle will tell the true tale.
<< <i>...(i'm forming a thought, be right back) >>
Well what happened to that thought? Could'nt get it to the front of the pack!!
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