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what do we know about spectrum?
coinhunter007
Posts: 54
i see these guys at shows a lot but don't really know much about them. the website says: "Spectrum Numismatics International is one of the largest collectibles firms in the world, specializing in the purchase of rare coins, currency and fine wines. Spectrum's financial strength and stability means that the firm is uniquely qualified to purchase a wide range of numismatic collectibles and fine wines, from modestly priced items out of small holdings to high-priced ultra rarities in large collections that have been formed over the course of many decades."
What do we think of them? do they have a big market share like bowers ? i never see any of their items for sale.
What do we think of them? do they have a big market share like bowers ? i never see any of their items for sale.
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Good group of folks working there.
peacockcoins
This should tell you all you need to know about Spectrum. Ironically, they happen to own Bowers & Merena.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
the bio the company writes is fine and dandy, but i want some 10+ year in the business or so collector's personal experience with them. not everything written on a company's website is all one may need to know. they seem to be alright and i may want to consign with them or bowers one day down the road. do they pay fair prices? are they #1 in the industry for what they do? etc
Ian Russel recently left Spectrum and is starting a new company. He posts here. Maybe you could PM him and find out the dirt. Steve Deeds, another long time employee, also just recently left.
<< <i>.......the bio the company writes is fine and dandy, but i want some 10+ year in the business or so collector's personal experience with them. not everything written on a company's website is all one may need to know. they seem to be alright and i may want to consign with them or bowers one day down the road. do they pay fair prices? are they #1 in the industry for what they do? etc >>
I have dealt with Spectrum for several years, and have had nothing but positive transactions with them. Ditto for the occasions in which I have consigned to Bowers.
<< <i>Spectrum is the old Greg Manning company, just renamed. They own Teletrade, Bowers and Merena, and A-Mark precious Metals. Afinsa of Spain bought a majority of the shares in a shady deal , renamed the company to Afinsa, and then went on to start a Ponzi scheme with their Stamp outfit and the help of Manning's stamp outfit. They were shut down and are under investigation by the Spanish Government. Don't really know how all this will sort out but I suspect at some point that the now named Spectrum company will be forced to sell their shares in Spectrum and pay back Spanish investors.
Ian Russel recently left Spectrum and is starting a new company. He posts here. Maybe you could PM him and find out the dirt. Steve Deeds, another long time employee, also just recently left. >>
I believe that Spectrum was founded in 1991 and acquired by Greg Manning's company in 1999. It has always been called Spectrum and is not simply Manning's company, renamed. Also, Steve Deeds still does work for Spectrum, just not in a full time capacity.
Ancient history. The details of the settlement are here.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
More than a few of the individual companies that live under the Spectrum umbrella have a long history. Go back to their site if you missed the details.
are they #1 in the industry for what they do?
They do practically everything. How can they possibly be #1 at all of them?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Spectrum/Escala/Greg Manning/Afinsa whatever, had numerous lawsuits against them. The one mentioned above is for the US side of the corporation. Afinsa, the majority shareholder, is still being sued in Spain. That is what I was referring to.
BTW - I deal with Teletrade all the time and have never had a problem. Amark is #1 in the bullion trade.
<< <i>MrEureka, the website was where i copied and pasted that above quote.
the bio the company writes is fine and dandy, but i want some 10+ year in the business or so collector's personal experience with them. not everything written on a company's website is all one may need to know. they seem to be alright and i may want to consign with them or bowers one day down the road. do they pay fair prices? are they #1 in the industry for what they do? etc >>
I met them about 1990 and sold them a bunch coins and found them to be real nice people. In fact, I gave them a lead on a couple of original bag of Morgan dollars and a couple of weeks later I get a check in the mail as a finders fee.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That may be true, but it's not Spectrum's problem. And FWIW, it looks like Afinsa and its owners are no longer major shareholders in Spectrum.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>BTW, Spectrum is #480 on the Fortune 500. (Not that it means anything, but Radio Shack is #481.
what's the link to that
I found the list here.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't see an SEC filing that indicates what you state is factual.
That may be true, but it's not Spectrum's problem.
It will be Spectrum stock holders problem if their 60% majority holding is dumped on the market.
I don't see an SEC filing that indicates what you state is factual.
All I did is look at a current list of major shareholders, and I don't see Afinsa or its principals listed. If I've missed something, let me know.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>And FWIW, it looks like Afinsa and its owners are no longer major shareholders in Spectrum.
I don't see an SEC filing that indicates what you state is factual.
That may be true, but it's not Spectrum's problem.
It will be Spectrum stock holders problem if their 60% majority holding is dumped on the market. >>
It would be nice, not to mention, a lot less unfair to Spectrum, if you would hold yourself to the same standards of accuracy and documentation as you are asking of Andy. You have already made one or more factual misstatements, and continue to speculate without having the facts.
Mr Feld. You know more about coins then I ever will. I have forgotten more about stocks than you'll ever know.
Afinsa is still the majority shareholder in Spectrum and is still being investigated and sued in Spain. How that turns out is anyone's guess, but one possible scenario is that the Afinsa shares in Spectrum will be liquidated and used to compensate those people in Spain who lost their life savings in the stamp Ponzi scheme.
According to last last yearly report
10Ka
Afinsa owned 58.36% of the stock (see page 13) as of the filing. Since then there was some dilution and their % may have gone down but they still own over 18million shares and are still majority holders. there have been no filings since to show that Afinsa sold any shares. A filing is required even if they sell 1 share.
do they have their own auction site? or do they use bowers & merena for that?
http://www.spectrumcoins.com/experts.aspx
<< <i>It would be nice, not to mention, a lot less unfair to Spectrum, if you would hold yourself to the same standards of accuracy and documentation as you are asking of Andy. You have already made one or more factual misstatements, and continue to speculate without having the facts.
Mr Feld. You know more about coins then I ever will. I have forgotten more about stocks than you'll ever know.
Afinsa is still the majority shareholder in Spectrum and is still being investigated and sued in Spain. How that turns out is anyone's guess, but one possible scenario is that the Afinsa shares in Spectrum will be liquidated and used to compensate those people in Spain who lost their life savings in the stamp Ponzi scheme.
According to last last yearly report
10Ka
Afinsa owned 58.36% of the stock (see page 13) as of the filing. Since then there was some dilution and their % may have gone down but they still own over 18million shares and are still majority holders. there have been no filings since to show that Afinsa sold any shares. A filing is required even if they sell 1 share. >>
Just how much HAVE you forgotten about stocks?
That said, your last post was mostly informative and more fair minded, and I appreciate that - really.
Take the hint people, they habor "conseravtionists" (it was even in a Coin World article one because one of them was suing Heritage). hello? Why does no one care about that?
Sure, Teletrade is well run, but did you ever look at the coins real good in B+M? Some of them come from these guys. I almost got burnt. Makes me adder than hell.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>That is not spectrum on the 500. they have a different parent company name.
Take the hint people, they habor "conseravtionists" (it was even in a Coin World article one because one of them was suing Heritage). hello? Why does no one care about that?
Sure, Teletrade is well run, but did you ever look at the coins real good in B+M? Some of them come from these guys. I almost got burnt. Makes me adder than hell. >>
I don't understand why your so pissed off at them. They're a very respectable group.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Because I bought a coin that was messed with from B+M and the trail lead right back to their "conservationists" on staff. I'd say thats good enough reason. Almost brought in my lawyer.
Now I will not deal with any of the Spectrum companies.
Yahoo is not the keeper of such things. They pay for access from other aggregators and data providers. Many times Yahoo info is out of date or wrong. Go to the SEC site itself or the Nasdaq site I linked to as they have a direct link. The SEC is the keeper of this information. Any owner of 5% or more of a stock needs to file a form 13x (x being a letter like d or g) when they buy or sell even 1 share. A majority holder is under even more restrictions; and they need to file a Form 4. The Auctencia division of Afinsa still holds 18Million+ shares. Considering that 10k shares normally trade for that stock, if those shares got liquidated, the stock would be pennies.
The best possible outcome for Spectrum is that they agree to buy those shares back at some set price. They don't have the means to do so and aren't very profitable which is surprising considering that they are the largest gold broker in the country.
you know what the heck you are doing and how much you know about hard bargaining.
If you are an innocent lamb, then you could end up as a rack of lamb.
Camelot
<< <i>It is all about how much merchandise you buy and sell, about how much
you know what the heck you are doing and how much you know about hard bargaining.
If you are an innocent lamb, then you could end up as a rack of lamb.
Bear, This is the most informative reply in this thread.
Two or three years ago, I submitted several coins to B&M via their main coin consignment man(no names here) while at the CSNS in Cincinnati, OH. When they went to auction at Baltimore, most if not all sold for 20%back of greysheet bid. I was assured that B&M would make sure that the reserves would "protect" my insterests during the auction. Well, long story short, two 1885-CC PCGS MS64PL Dollars sold at less that GS bid and many of my other coins "sold" at 20% back of Gs bid. I was Bear's "rack of Lamb" in that deal. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Since then, I have been treated very honestly and fairly by Heritage and do not mind plugging them in the least.
<< <i>
<< <i>It is all about how much merchandise you buy and sell, about how much
you know what the heck you are doing and how much you know about hard bargaining.
If you are an innocent lamb, then you could end up as a rack of lamb.
Bear, This is the most informative reply in this thread.
Two or three years ago, I submitted several coins to B&M via their main coin consignment man(no names here) while at the CSNS in Cincinnati, OH. When they went to auction at Baltimore, most if not all sold for 20%back of greysheet bid. I was assured that B&M would make sure that the reserves would "protect" my insterests during the auction. Well, long story short, two 1885-CC PCGS MS64PL Dollars sold at less that GS bid and many of my other coins "sold" at 20% back of Gs bid. I was Bear's "rack of Lamb" in that deal. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Since then, I have been treated very honestly and fairly by Heritage and do not mind plugging them in the least. >>
Did you place reserves on your coins, or not? I can't tell from your post, but it sounds as if you didn't, but expected the auction house to bid up your coins. Also, MANY coins hammer at less than CDN bid in MANY auctions. I don't really understand your gripe.
553 words
23 August 2010
Targeted News Service
WASHINGTON, Aug. 23 -- The Securities and Exchange Commission issued the following litigation release:
The Securities and Exchange Commission announced that on August 23, 2010, the Honorable Denise Cote of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York entered a Final Judgment against the founder and former CEO of Escala Group, Inc., Gregory Manning ("Manning"), 64, who was charged, along with then-NASDAQ National Market issuer Escala Group, Inc. ("Escala"), and former CFO Larry Lee Crawford, 62, with disclosure and accounting fraud violations concerning related party transactions between Escala and its parent company, Afinsa Bienes Tangibles, S.A. ("Afinsa").
The Final Judgment, to which Manning consented without admitting or denying the allegations in the complaint, permanently restrains and enjoins Manning from: (i) violation of Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act [15 U.S.C. s 78j(b)] and Rule 10b-5 thereunder [17 C.F.R. s 240.10b-5]; (ii) violation of Section 13(b)(5) of the Exchange Act [15 U.S.C. ss 78m(b)(5)] and Exchange Act Rules 13b2-1 and 13b2-2 [17 C.F.R. ss 240.13b2-1 and 13b2-2]; (iii) aiding and abetting Escala Group Inc's violation of Exchange Act Sections 13(a), 13(b)(2)(A), and 13(b)(2)(B) [15 U.S.C. ss 78m(a), 78m(b)(2)(A), and 78m(b)(2)(B),] and Rules 12b-20, 13a-1, 13a-13 [17 C.F.R. ss 240.12b-20, 13a-1, and 13a-13]; (iv) violation of Exchange Act Rule 13a-14 [17 C.F.R. s 240.13a-14]. It also orders Manning to pay $669,489 in disgorgement, prejudgment interest and penalties, and bars Manning from serving as an officer or director of a public company for 10 years.
Escala, now known as Spectrum Group International, Inc., was a network of companies in the collectibles market specializing in stamps. Afinsa was a privately held Spanish company that sold investments in portfolios of stamps in Europe. The Commission's complaint, filed on March 23, 2009, and amended on August 28, 2009, among other things, alleged a fraudulent business scheme based upon the secret and dramatic manipulation of collectible stamp values, in which Manning violated the antifraud and reporting provisions of the federal securities laws by failing to disclose the related party status of Barrett & Worthen, Inc., resulting in control of the Brookman Catalogue, and failing to disclose the revenues obtained by virtue of Afinsa and Manning's control of the prices in the Brookman Catalogue; falsely representing that Escala sold Afinsa several large stamp archives at prices determined by reference to independent stamp catalogues and appraisals when in fact Manning set the catalogue prices and influenced and edited the appraisals; and that Escala and Manning also violated the antifraud provisions by selling back to Afinsa in a round-trip transaction inventory acquired from Afinsa in direct contravention of Escala's public promise not to do so.
Rare coins veteran starts Morgan Gold
394 words
13 July 2010
Commodity Online
India, July 13 -- Steve Deeds a 40 year old veteran and one of the highly respected experts in the rare coin and precious metals market has launched Morgan Gold that will focus on the sale of classic United States gold coinage and will also offer European gold coinage and modern bullion coins. I am pleased to announce the formation of Morgan Gold asserted Founder Steve Deeds. My team of numismatic professionals including Vice President of Operations Louis Palafoutas specializes in the sale of classic pre 1933 United States gold coinage and other gold coins to collectors private investors and brokerage firms. Our goal is to help those with an interest in collecting and investing in gold to obtain both coins and bullion in a comfortable and confidential manner. Morgan Gold will also focus on educating our clientele on all aspects of the gold market to include aspects of coinage history collecting strategies and investment opportunities.
During a career that has spanned more than four decades Steve Deeds has risen to become one of the most well known and highly respected experts in the rare coin and precious metals markets. He began his career as a professional numismatist in 1963 when as a high school student he managed a local coin shop in his home town of Inglewood California. Later in his career Steve became one of the pioneers in the repatriation of United States gold coins that the federal government had sent to Europe as part of reparations after both world wars. He continues to be actively involved in the repatriation of U.S. gold coins and has made this aspect of the market one of the cornerstones of Morgan Gold. Steve is a member of the Professional Numismatist Guild (PNG) and a Life Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA). He also holds memberships in many national regional and local numismatic organizations. Morgan Gold is an authorized dealer for the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and is a member of the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA). Morgan Gold can be reached toll free at 800 585 1773. For media inquiries ask for VP of Operations Louis Palafoutas.Published by HT Syndication with permission from Commodity Online.
As far as B&M reserves go, I've had coins sell for under our agreed upon written reserves. I would have much prefered to have the coins returned to me fwiw. Yeah, they paid the difference under the reserve but it still didn't sit right with me. I know many say this is acceptable and up to auctioneer's discretion but I tend to disagree. Those reviewing prices realized will see an erroneous market value for the coin (and all other similars to it) since it actually sold for 5-10% more than the high bid.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It is all about how much merchandise you buy and sell, about how much
you know what the heck you are doing and how much you know about hard bargaining.
If you are an innocent lamb, then you could end up as a rack of lamb.
Bear, This is the most informative reply in this thread.
Two or three years ago, I submitted several coins to B&M via their main coin consignment man(no names here) while at the CSNS in Cincinnati, OH. When they went to auction at Baltimore, most if not all sold for 20%back of greysheet bid. I was assured that B&M would make sure that the reserves would "protect" my insterests during the auction. Well, long story short, two 1885-CC PCGS MS64PL Dollars sold at less that GS bid and many of my other coins "sold" at 20% back of Gs bid. I was Bear's "rack of Lamb" in that deal. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Since then, I have been treated very honestly and fairly by Heritage and do not mind plugging them in the least. >>
Did you place reserves on your coins, or not? I can't tell from your post, but it sounds as if you didn't, but expected the auction house to bid up your coins. Also, MANY coins hammer at less than CDN bid in MANY auctions. I don't really understand your gripe. >>
Mark,
I requested the opportunity to list my coins with reserves and was assured that B&M would set reserves that would "protect" my coins during the auction. After I saw the listed starting bids, I talked to the coin rep again and was re-assured that I was protected and that any problems(?) would be made up by them, which never happened. I was, to put it plain, lied to. It is my belief that B&M ended up with several of my coins in their inventory, though I can not prove that.
and you are served as the side dish , along with the stuffed goose.
Camelot
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>Dave, the "conservationist" from Spectrum worked for Heritage as a contractor. Since his work was contracted for by Heritage, do you think they were aware of his skills in that area? If so, are they any less morally culpable than Spectrum? >>
Coming out blazin............I likey...............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>sure...after a few swigs..the coins start lookin better
after a bottle or 2 of wine i bet the prices start looking better too
They went to $35 when they were at their height and the ponzi scheme was announced. They went straight down and are now at $2 and are a marginally profitable company. Amark is a low margin division and seems unaffected but they can't seem to make money at Teletrade or Bowers and Merena
<< <i>dbcoin.. I repeat: "In what way does their share price affect their ability to operationalize their business plan?" Don't many quite viable supermarket chains work on less than 1% margins? Please explain why you believe the value of their stock would discourage anyone from doing business with them? >>
Speaking generally and not specifically, the stock market has access to a whole lot more information than you or I about a particular company's financial state. Low stock price would make me think twice about trusting my coins with someone - either on consignment or in auction. Trying to get one's coins back out of a bankruptcy is no fun whatsoever.
Again, that was a general answer to the question presented.
Operationally we no longer had the luxury of choosing the lowest priced vendor but anyone that would do the work, if there was one. And many projects and maintenance tasks were delayed for as long as possible.
roadrunner
Yes. It is used by Amark. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Amark can't make more money with gold doing so well. Imagine how bad they would be doing if gold were to plummet and no one wanted to trade any more.
<< <i>what does spectrum exactly do? they have affiliates like bowers but do they directly deal with collectors? or do they just buy from dealers and or/are wholesalers? >>
The Teletrade and Bowers and Merena divisions deal directly with the public but Spectrum generally does not.
A lot has already been said about Spectrum in the previous posts. Some of the information is true and some of it isn't totally truthful. I will simply state that I deal a lot with Spectrum, Bowers and Merena and Teletrade and I have found that dealing with the company is generally a good experience. They are not perfect, nor is any other company, but as a whole I have no reservations with interacting and dealing with Spectrum.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>sure...after a few swigs..the coins start lookin better
I needed a good laugh, and that did it...
Facts are...Spectrum is:
one of the largest coin wholesalers
owner of A-Mark, one of the world's largest bullion dealers with billions in annual sales
owner of a bunch of other coin stuff (Bowers and Merena, TeleTrade) and other stuff (gun auctions, wine auctions, stamp auctions)
think Heritage (their main competitor in many spaces such as coin auctions and wholesaling) and you get the picture, though Heritage doesn't have the big bullion footprint, but does do much more auction volume.
I do a lot of business, both buying and selling, with Spectrum and have for decades. I even sold them one of their companies...Bowers and Merena.
Anything is possible, but I don't think you have anything to worry about with Spectrum, or B&M, or TeleTrade, or A-Mark.
If I was younger I'd try to buy A-Mark from them.
hrh