What does the PCGS lawsuit mean to the low end collector ?

JamesW

What I mean by low end collector is someone that grade isn't the main factor in a coin. I collect coins because I love the hobby, I concentrate more on completing sets, don't get me wrong the higher the grade the more pleased I am, but it's not my goal. After reading the lawsuit (which I hope PCGS wins) I went back and read the rules for submitting coins, and unless I misunderstood what I read, you are not to knowingly submit a doctored coin, doesn't mention the extent of doctoring or the intent of the doctoring or even how good the doctoring is done. I have quite a few genuine holdered coins, most of them I knew would be genuine when I sent them in, I just wanted them in holders to fit in with the rest of my coins. 3 of the coins for example are 1795 dollar that was holed and plugged, 1798 dollar that has a bad ding on the obverse, and 1878 CC Dollar that had been cleaned. I purchased all the coins in the condition that I submitted them (The 1878 CC was sold to my wife graded MS63 about 8 years ago and had come back cleaned before PCGS started holdering genuine coins). I knowingly submitted these coins with those problems for PCGS to grade and put in genuine holders, obviously these problems stand out to PCGS. Do you think the lawsuit will cause any changes for getting problem coins in genuine holders? The coins I submit are not expensive coins as I am sure is the same for lots of others. The 1795 Dollar I knew had been holed and plugged, the person I bought it from knew it, I knowingly submitted it to PCGS for grading with no mention of it. It almost makes me think that in order to separate myself from a coin doctor (other than obvious coin value) when submitting a coin with known problems it should be mentioned on the submission form. I am not one for breaking rules and for sure not breaking the law.

Thoughts??

Billet7

I think the idea behind the rule is---submitting doctored coins with the intent to defraud. It is obviously acceptable to submit coins that have problems, even ones that have been improved upon (ie. the coin was once bent in half, and now it is flattened.) I think the rule is there to keep people from harming and defrauding the system and PCGS, not for the people, such as yourself, that are legitimately using PCGS as a "genuine" authentication service. It is expected that some coins will be sent in that are knowingly "messed with," or the Genuine service would not exist in the first place. I think "Doctoring" is a practice of altering a coin to increase it's percieved value. Your coins are clearly not doctored, if you can readily tell that the alteration has been done.

Doctoring is akin to counterfeiting. Taking something that isn't, and trying to make it like something that is! It's fraud. You are not guilty of fraud from your comments.

Greeniejr

This does absolutely nothing to low end collectors. Many on this board cling to their ivory tower mentality that if a coin is cleaned, whizzed, anything it is not acceptable to be collected and destroyed. There are many collectors who can't afford better and happily collect them. There is nothing wrong with buying or selling them as long as they are accurately described and priced. You can get them slabbed as genuine at PCGS or details at NGC. The whole doctoring issue is for high end stuff really.

yellowkid

<< <i>This does absolutely nothing to low end collectors. Many on this board cling to their ivory tower mentality that if a coin is cleaned, whizzed, anything it is not acceptable to be collected and destroyed. There are many collectors who can't afford better and happily collect them. There is nothing wrong with buying or selling them as long as they are accurately described and priced. You can get them slabbed as genuine at PCGS or details at NGC. The whole doctoring issue is for high end stuff really. >>



Ivory tower mentality? Who wants anything destoyed? I don't think any "high end" collectors care at what level anyone else is doing or collecting.

golfer72

I tend to agree with the responses so far but what about submitting a coin you know is AT that comes back graded? As everyone knows this does happen. Are you then contributing to getting doctored coins slabbed?

Greeniejr

If the services grade it then either hold on to it or sell it accurately described. I had a Seated Half Dollar recently that I thought would be an easier sell in a NGC Pr Details cleanned holder. It was sent back as a PR63Cam. I put the coin on eBay starting at .01 no reserve, described it as having bad hairlines likely from being cleaned, and I sold it. People can make their own decisions.

DHeath

Greeniejr,

As a submitter, I always considered an overgrade, or an oversight, by the TPGs a far more difficult problem than an undergrade. It is really tough to represent fairly. I have actually cracked one out and sold iot raw. The undergrades make you believe the TPG is tight. The overgrades make you mistrust the holder.