1878 S Morgan That Don't Match Other Same Coins

Harry779

The pictures are all 1878 S Morgans.
The upper left photo is my coin.
The other 3 photos are all MS66 1878 S Morgans.
Much of the hair details do not seem to match any of the other 1878 S coins.
The area under what looks like bag marks is sunken but the other coins are not.
There seems to be a big difference in the curved area of the bonnet.
Thoughts? Thanks..

magikbilly

Hello,

that is really interesting. Not my area but those are not going to be bag marks I'll guess - the bit that looks like an "m". Can you tilt your coins photo to match the other three coins?

Best wishes,
Eric

seanq

I think the coin with the arrows is just better struck than the other three, and those curls did not strike up on the other coins. I suppose it's also possible that you've discovered an "accented hair" variety, but I think it would take more than a four-coin sample to establish that.


Sean Reynolds

kryptonitecomics

Looks to me like a die clash.......

Harry779

heres another picture of the "M"

coinguy1

I think it is a combination of a difference in strike and a die clash.

kryptonitecomics

I believe the clash is wing feathers which would look like an M depending on the orientation of the clash.

pmac

Could the 'M' be caused from the reeding of another coin strucking this coin after minting (down the shute or in the bag)?

magikbilly

Hi there,

Oooh, I was wondering die clash/wings this morning. Cool.

Thanks,
Eric

erroid

Hmm, PMD from denticles or reeding??? I've seen the like on arrow heads, of a GSA CC.

gsaguy

Crack out Breen's book and take a look at that date/mintmark. Also, that upper left photo looks like a cast mold to me. My eyes are really failing me these days.

Lewy

Are you 100% sure that is your 'coin" in the upper left Harry?

Liberty's hair and the eagle's wings are both engravings on dies. I rather imagine that a clash between two die engravings would be quite the novelty as well.

I vote that your coin is a mold.

gsaguy

<< <i>Are you 100% sure that is your 'coin" in the upper left Harry?

Liberty's hair and the eagle's wings are both engravings on dies. I rather imagine that a clash between two die engravings would be quite the novelty as well.

I vote that your coin is a mold. >>



See my post above. I was thinking along the same lines.

RWB

Posting your photos on VAMworld.com might generate some additional responses.

Lewy

Yes, I am very guilty of looking only at pictures without reading all that I should, but I am also guilty of being fooled by pictures more times than not. Now when I look at the picture again, it looks like a coin. I need a glass of wine and my 3-D glasses for this one.

Lewy

VAMworld would be an excellent idea. I am interested in the marks (that I have outlined) as well.



Getting interesting. I wish that I knew how to do an inverse overlay.........

Lewy

I have rotated the coin so it is easier to look at (for me anyway). Is it 'really' that color? The vammers will want pictures of the reverse as well.

cmerlo1

<< <i>VAMworld would be an excellent idea. I am interested in the marks (that I have outlined) as well.



Getting interesting. I wish that I knew how to do an inverse overlay......... >>




It's a reeding mark from contacting another coin in a bag...

Lewy

<< <i>It's a reeding mark from contacting another coin in a bag... >>



Yes. I believe that assessment is correct.

As far as the arrowed marks, I would say that they are supposed to be there. I think what makes this coin look different from the others is that there is something missing, (not added).

To me, it looks like some of the hair detail in the vicinity of those marks is missing, possibly due to a strike thru greasy gunk in the die. (Or greasy unwashed hair; should have used Head & Shoulders.

Harry779

"is the coin really that color"
no it's not. it is all silver color on both sides.
it feels,looks and sounds like any other Morgan silver dollar.
i have had this coin for almost 50 years so i doubt very highly its a fake.
the photo i put up the second time was to show that the "M" area is raised.
the area below the "M" on other Morgan dollars is pretty flat but on this coin it is sunken.
RWB:i did a thread at vamworld.they pointed out that it has an engraved wing feather and then i saw that it has a broken 4th star.the "S" mintmark looks very thick (S/S?) to me.
but i am more interested in the hair details and the double edge on the hat and in that area.
Mold: meaning a fake coin? or some other meaning that i dont know of?

Lewy

Harry, I am not trying to be argumentative, but I think that the indentations that caused that "m" truly are bag marks from contact with another coin's reeding, and the depressions on either side of the raised portions are confusing . Sort of like pondering the countryside and wondering, 'are the hills above sea level or are the valleys below sea level'.

As for the arrowed hair areas, I really believe that it is as I said before: Strike thru.

Lewy

I look again and everything looks like PMD to me. Judging topography from a picture is beyond my capabilities. If anyone will know for sure what's up with this coin, it will be the vamworld folks; there are some very talented and knowledgeable folks over there.