These Fake PCGS Morgans are getting a bit more lifelike.

braddick

I've been concerned as with many of you these counterfeit Morgans would end up at legitimate shops. These are the latest two I've picked up and have added to my budding collection of counterfeit and fake silver Morgans.
Although not even close to perfected, to the trained eye, these are getting better and certainly can fool the beginner or intermediate collector.

Wolf359

TWQG

You bought these from a shop or were they eBay purchases?

coinkid855

The font just looks a little dark...other than that...uh oh.



-Paul

AUandAG

I propose buying raw from now on. Unless, of course, you know the submitter and have
access to his submission information. I have all mine and can provide as I'm sure most
on the forum can do.

Sad for sure.

bob

Wolf359

<< <i>.....



-Paul >>



Don't give them any help...sheesh.

BigE

That last pic, the coin with the prooflike reverse, all I see is that it is an s mint, that is a fake? -----------------------------BigE

Marauderrt10

they still can be told apart from the real ones but they are very minor details.

braddick

<< <i>That last pic, the coin with the prooflike reverse, all I see is that it is an s mint, that is a fake? -----------------------------BigE >>



Yes, it is the reverse of the "1893-S".
There is a (slight) chance the original purchaser can recoup his funds from the "1894" so speaking where they were originally purchased isn't prudent.

sinin1

dang those are nice AU-53s

silvergoldnut

i hope the " big one" from pcgs is a new holder.its time....

dcarr

With all this talk about higher-quality Chinese fakes, why is it that there never seems to be any high-quality detailed pictures posted anywhere for diangostic analysis ? Can you post any better close-up pictures of just the coins, not the slab ?

dcarr

<< <i>i hope the " big one" from pcgs is a new holder.its time.... >>



A new holder really won't do squat.
What will be needed is new authentication technologies.

lkeigwin

<< <i>With all this talk about higher-quality Chinese fakes, why is it that there never seems to be any high-quality detailed pictures posted anywhere for diagnostic analysis? Can you post any better close-up pictures of just the coins, not the slab? >>

Yes! Or send it to someone who can. Lots of folks around here take pretty good photos. Heck, I'll do it for free.
Lance.

Barry

PCGS should declare war on China

silvergoldnut

<< <i>

<< <i>i hope the " big one" from pcgs is a new holder.its time.... >>



A new holder really won't do squat.
What will be needed is new authentication technologies. >>



i agree they should follow ngc with photo authentication that can be used right from your phone, but i have not heard of any new ngc holders being copied, have you?

i think a two part attack is the only way to go. if not more...

silvergoldnut

<< <i>PCGS should declare war on China >>



i agree, but can we wait to finish the two were in now...

lkeigwin

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>i hope the " big one" from pcgs is a new holder.its time.... >>



A new holder really won't do squat.
What will be needed is new authentication technologies. >>

i agree they should follow ngc with photo authentication that can be used right from your phone, but i have not heard of any new ngc holders being copied, have you? >>

The NGC counterfeits sell for less.
Lance.

icsoccer

Wow... I guess you had better "know" the complete history of
your purchase you are planning on making!

ocon4008

PM sent

anablep

Need better pictures than these to really see anything useful.

Coupdescrounge

Now that Paul has told them about the too dark font, look for them to be even
more convincing in the future.

Placid

Here is one of the coins from Heritage archive. Sold jan 2009.



Link

TrustNo1

Where does it end? Before you know it, we will see fake threads too !

hiijacker

I see they copied the correct cert number as well.

The only way around this I see is to add a photo on the certification site, so it can be matched up against the coin in hand AND to add a 2D barcode like Scanlife to offer instant access to the certification page with any cellphone camera with web access.

Boom

Man - This is scary!

ricko

In the final analysis, one must not rely on the apparent certification of an item. One must become personally skilled in authentication of coins and, evidently, plastic (if one deals in plastic). It is, and always has been.... Caveat Emptor. Cheers, RickO

1Mike1

Wonder when the Chinese will take it a step further and produce them with CAC stickers?

cheezhed

An easy diagnostic is the opening in the loop of the "P" in PCGS on the label.

Fake = smaller opening
Real = bigger opening

PawPaul

is the Heritage one pictured above a fake ??

Marauderrt10

<< <i>is the Heritage one pictured above a fake ?? >>

no its real.

19Lyds

<< <i>

<< <i>i hope the " big one" from pcgs is a new holder.its time.... >>



A new holder really won't do squat.
What will be needed is new authentication technologies. >>



I agree. There are millions of coins in the old holders and as long as the old holders exist there is always the potential for counterfeiting the holders.

ziggy29

Threads like this make me think I need to sell all my coins before all these new fake coins and fake slabs severely depress the market.

19Lyds

How about a little side by side?

..

Link

BillJones

<< <i>I propose buying raw from now on. Unless, of course, you know the submitter and have
access to his submission information. I have all mine and can provide as I'm sure most
on the forum can do.

Sad for sure.

bob >>



I don't get the point of this post at all. Our best defense against these Chinese crooks to work with the leading grading services to root out the garbage. That includes the fake coins that are in the fake slabs.

If you are going to buy nothing but raw coins, you had better be as good at spotting counterfeits as the top authenticators at the top grading services. Buying nothing but raw coins will only make the counterfeiters’ job easier because most collectors can’t tell the difference between a fairly poor counterfeit and a genuine coin.

johnny9434

this isint gonna be the least bit goood

Coinosaurus

I believed HRH has nix'ed all the authentication technologies (RF chips, fingerprint scans on file, etc.) suggested in the "big one" thread as not being even close to the planned announcement. Which makes the photos above even scarier.

scottgardener

The problem with a redesigned holder is that they can still counterfeit older holders.

truthteller

I buy raw coins all the time, and I know my coins so I don't buy counterfeits, holder or no holder. If I have a suspicion, I pass. Those who are confident about buying raw coins will have no concerns at all. Those who buy the plastic should either educate themselves in the particular series of interest, or avoid expensive coins.

For those buying plastic, just ask the seller if he/she will guarantee the coin. Any hesitancy, pass.



TRUTH

pakasmom

<< <i>With all this talk about higher-quality Chinese fakes, why is it that there never seems to be any high-quality detailed pictures posted anywhere for diangostic analysis ? Can you post any better close-up pictures of just the coins, not the slab ? >>



And just to show how ridiculous this has all become... ironically, someone posts a diagnostic of the font on a slab.

topstuf

Other than deploying authenticators to every McDonald's with a drive thru service, there is nothing they CAN do.

Go to Walmart and bust a Chinese product. It will have to be returned and the stores will lose money and quit buying from our ENEMY.

topstuf

OR.... as I see it, the major TPGs are going to have to COOPERATIVELY take this one by the nose.

And IDENTIFY and PUBLISH (online and in print) at NO COST each reasonably deceptive fake.
Spread the cost over their respective volume and just eat it.
If they don't, the hobby is going to stop.
No ifs ands or buts.

Done QUICKLY enough, I'd guess damage would be limited. It would put the onus on the fakers to CONSTANTLY improve their "product." Something that would remove the ...easy... bucks from the operations.

The quicker they act, the less will be the incentive to tool up for a counter-counter measure by the fakers.

It can't be CHEAP to do a GOOD job of faking the coin and the holder. But with no action to prevent it, it's gonna spread.

Seems it would preserve both the hobby and the TPG bizz.
FWIW

yellowkid

With the aid of the TPG's and the technology that is available, counterfeits need not be a problem to serious collectors. Where they can have a big effect, is among those who buy and sell raw coins, quite often this includes the new collector, be he/she 10 or 35. The notion in the public's head that the coin market is full of bogus pieces does nothing for the development and spread of the hobby.