No-MAH to retire after signing with Sox

Barndog

cool move on both sides

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/03/nomar_to_retire.html

still, he gave up in 2004

perkdog

Whatever, if I was the Red Sox I would say no thank You. The guy bailed on us at a critical time and thats the bottom line, Im all set with Him, Manny, Clemens ect..

Saberman

When those debates were raging in the late 90's, early 00's, about who the best SS was, Nomar was great. From the mid 1997 to 2003, here is how those three ranked.

1. Arod
2. Nomar
3. Jeter

But that was pretty much the end of Nomar being compared to those guys. After that, he was merely 'good', and then didn't even play SS anymore.

How does that holy trinity compare to the careers of the 80's SS holy trinity?

Ripken
Yount
Ozzie Smith

PowderedH2O

How do they compare? Well, they aren't done yet, so the jury is still out. Obviously, Nomar would be the weakest of the group in career value. So, are ARod and Jeter enough to offset the difference with the three Hall of Famers? Not yet. I'll call Jeter and Ripken a wash. Both are beloved figures that have been solid offensive and defensive players for one organization for many years. ARod is clearly above either of the other players offensively, and he was a pretty darned good shortstop when he played there. But how much better was he than Yount? Not as much better as Ozzie is over Nomar. So, right now I give the edge to the old guys.

ShawnyD

once he went off the juice he was all done.

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>once he went off the juice he was all done. >>



Absolutely. Nomar suffered one of the most horrific, steroid usage-caused injuries ever.

Connecticoin

<< <i>

<< <i>once he went off the juice he was all done. >>



Absolutely. Nomar suffered one of the most horrific, steroid usage-caused injuries ever. >>



The pitch that hit his wrists was the injury that started his downward slide. He was never the same after that. I don't think that injury was "steroid-induced" (unless it was the pitcher who was on steroids).

That being said, I am not ruling out that he may have took 'roids -- he sure looked that way on the SI cover. But I have yet to see any evidence of 'roid use linked to him.

jackstraw

If he was willing to move to third I believe ARod would be a Red Sox. Once the Red Sox tried to move him it was all over
like a little baby . I am sort of with perkdog here.

bking

<< <i>If he was willing to move to third I believe ARod would be a Red Sox. Once the Red Sox tried to move him it was all over
like a little baby . I am sort of with perkdog here. >>



I don't think the MLBPA wanted ARod anywhere but New York. They engineered that whole trade scenario IMO.

jackstraw

That may have some truth but the Red Sox were willing to sign him if Nomar
would move to third and then they tried to trade him in the deal because
the Red Sox had a pretty good 3rd baseman in the minors named Youkilis.

Ahmanfan

<< <i>Whatever, if I was the Red Sox I would say no thank You. The guy bailed on us at a critical time and thats the bottom line, Im all set with Him, Manny, Clemens ect..[/q


I don't really know the story but I thought nomar was traded?
JOhn

jdip9

cool move on both sides

I agree. I enjoyed watching him play for the Sox. Thought it was cool last year when he came back with the A's and got standing O's each night in his first AB.

He should be a good fit for ESPN.

MantleMarisFordBerra

I read a funny site called www.barstoolsports.com - huge BoSox fans. One guy had this interesting take on Nomar retiring:




Well boys and girls with Nomar retiring from baseball it’s time to reflect on the greatest Red Sox of them all. Now I know lots of you kids out there are probably too young to remember just how great Nomar was, but in my mind he is still the best Red Sox hitter I’ve ever seen. The only way to get him out was to have him hit a line drive of somebody’s face and hope it fell into their glove. He was literally that good. It’s just a shame that Larry Lucchino ran him out of town with a smear campaign the likes of which this city has never seen. For those of you who have forgotten this is how Nomar’s greek tragedy unfolded.

In 2004 Nomar turned down a 4 year 60 million dollar offer from the Sox. Nomar still maintains that offer was never officially made, but it doesn’t even matter. Lucchino would say it was an indication Nomar didn’t want to play here and wanted to go to the West Coast. Of course that same off season Nomar bought a multi million dollar house on the North Shore which is a strange move for a guy who wasn’t planning on sticking around. The reality of the situation was Nomar loved it here and had every intention of staying, but this first offer was a lowball offer. Sure it sounds insane, but both Derek Jeter and Arod had much more lucrative deals despite the fact that Nomar had out performed both of them at that point in their careers. So instead of signing this deal he decided to roll the dice and play the 2004 season. He figured if he put up another Nomar like season he’d get a better offer from the Sox. I believe people call it negotiating. Also keep in mind we’re not talking about Pedro or Manny here. Nomar never once complained about his contract even though he was vastly underpaid. He never threatened to hold out. He never said a peep. He just played as hard as he could and did his talking in-between the white lines. Yeah I’m sure he was bummed at the lack of respect from the new ownership group but he didn’t let it affect him. Instead what effected him is what happened next.

After Nomar turned down first offer, unbeknown to him the Sox tried to trade for Alex Rodriguez to replace him at shortstop. Actually I shouldn’t say they tried to trade for Arod, they did trade for him. But the deal was nixed by Bud Selig on a technicality. How did Nomar find out about this you ask? Via Sportscenter when Kevin Millar was quoted as saying he’d rather Rodriguez than Garciaparra. Hmm, hell of a way for the new ownership group to treat the heart and soul of the franchise for the past decade don’t you think? And people wonder why he sulked that last year. How would you like it if you’d worked your ass off at a company for 10 years only to have some slick out of town used car salesman come in and stab you in the back 5 seconds after they arrived? Well that’s what happened to Nomar.

Now the next part of this saga is where people get confused and to me the most disgusting part of this whole ordeal. Nomar had a legitimate ankle injury in 04. His production tailed way off and he had to sit out a ton of games. Lucchino took this opportunity to leak to the press that Nomar wasn’t really hurt. That he was faking his injury to force his way out of town. Kind of like what Manny did. And it all culminated with that game against the Yankees when Derek Jeter dove head first into the crowd on a routine pop up. The cameras panned to Nomar sitting in the dugout and his fate was sealed. Lucchino seized the opportunity to convince the public that Nomar quit on the team and needed to be traded. It was basically his way to prevent a PR nightmare for trading the team’s and regions’ most popular player/athlete. What everybody fails to realize is that once Nomar was traded to Chicago he missed 75% of the games the rest of the season with that same supposedly fake ankle injury. And this is why the Manny comparisons are infuriating. This wasn’t a situation where suddenly the guy goes from half dead to Babe Ruth after the trade. Nomar actually played less and did worse as a Cub that year than a Red Sox. AKA – He never quit on his team. He was legitimately injured. Was he pouting? Of course. You would to if what happened to him happened to you. The bottom line is that Larry Lucchinno and the new ownership group never wanted to resign Nomar. But they knew the only way they could get rid of him was by unleashing a smear campaign that would make Hitler blush and that’s exactly what they did. From the lowball offer, to trying to trade for Arod, to saying he was faking his injury, to never making him another offer it was one thing after another. It’s the worst any athlete of his stature has ever been treated by management in this town.

People always ask me why I loved Nomar so much. Well he was everything I wanted in an athlete. Plus I was too young for Bird, too old for Brady. Nomar let his play do his talking. He always hustled. He never talked publicly about his contract. He never ripped the team. He never loafed it to first base. He was ugly. He respected the fans. He played like our money meant something to him. Everybody who ever met him at a bar or in public said he was universally nice and appreciative. Sure the media hated him because he didn’t give a sht about them, but that only made me like him more. His only Achilles heal in that he didn’t get the business side of baseball. He just thought if he busted ass all on the field all the off field stuff would take care of itself and he took it personal when it didn’t. He got swallowed up by the business side of the game. It’s kind of sad, but at the same time kind of noble. I just know that during his time here he was the best player in the game and played it as honest and hard as anybody I’ve ever seen. That’s why I love him. That’s why most fans love him. And that’s why the media doesn’t get it. We don’t care about whether players are nice to Dan Shaugnessy or Steve Buckley. We honestly don’t give a sht. All we ask for is an honest effort day in and day out and nobody can deny Nomar didn’t give us that.

perkdog

<< <i>

<< <i>Whatever, if I was the Red Sox I would say no thank You. The guy bailed on us at a critical time and thats the bottom line, Im all set with Him, Manny, Clemens ect..[/q


I don't really know the story but I thought nomar was traded?
JOhn >>




Yea he was traded because he wasnt a team player, he all of a sudden got an attitude like Manny- not as bad but still

perkdog

<< <i>I read a funny site called www.barstoolsports.com - huge BoSox fans. One guy had this interesting take on Nomar retiring: >>



I only read bits & pieces of that. The guy who said that is an idiot in my opinion

Barndog

that's a nice story, but baseball (all sports?) is a business these days, as it was in 2004. I'm sure the current Sox owners would have traded Ted Williams if it would bring a WS title.

Connecticoin

<< <i>If he was willing to move to third I believe ARod would be a Red Sox. Once the Red Sox tried to move him it was all over
like a little baby . I am sort of with perkdog here. >>



No, not true. Pay-Rod was willing to take a pay cut to come to Boston in a trade for Manny but the MLBPA would not allow it (Pay-Rod and the Sox were trying to argue that increased endorsement income would make up for the pay cut).

Sox Trade for Pay-Rod

Bottom9th

If Arod was on the Sox in 2004 would we have won it all? I tend to doubt it.

greencrow

Nomar and Monica were born on the same day. July 23, 1973.

TomGshotput

<< <i>If Arod was on the Sox in 2004 would we have won it all? I tend to doubt it. >>



No chance. The is little reason to believe the Red Sox winning would have been any different, however

Garciaparra surpasses Mattingly and Pedro Guerrero on the greatest peak/weakest career in recent history, though Mo Vaughan may still be ahead



<< <i>How does that holy trinity compare to the careers of the 80's SS holy trinity? >>



Three years is less than half as good as seven years. . .

billwaltonsbeard

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>once he went off the juice he was all done. >>



Absolutely. Nomar suffered one of the most horrific, steroid usage-caused injuries ever. >>



The pitch that hit his wrists was the injury that started his downward slide. He was never the same after that. I don't think that injury was "steroid-induced" (unless it was the pitcher who was on steroids). >>



I was referring to when he completely tore his groin while running to first base. How does an athlete COMPLETELY tear a groin?

Ahmanfan

<< <i>

<< <i>If he was willing to move to third I believe ARod would be a Red Sox. Once the Red Sox tried to move him it was all over
like a little baby . I am sort of with perkdog here. >>



No, not true. Pay-Rod was willing to take a pay cut to come to Boston in a trade for Manny but the MLBPA would not allow it (Pay-Rod and the Sox were trying to argue that increased endorsement income would make up for the pay cut).

Sox Trade for Pay-Rod >>




whoa whoa whoa... so a player cannot take less money to go to a better team/somewhere he would rather play because of the mlbpa?? If I was going to sign with a great team for $50mil or a terrible team for $80mil and the MLBPA was trying to tell me I had to take the money, I'd tell them to stick it!!
John

WeekendHacker

I tend to believe that the media (especially big city media NY Bos Phil) has a tendency sometimes exaggerate a story to sometimes alienate an individual.

Having said that, I appreciate everything that Nomar brought to the table in Bos. He was loved in that city - period. Whether or not he 'sat down' on the team is to be debated - but it doesn't change everything he brought to the team in all his years there.

Kinda like the Manny situation. I do not condone, support or appreciate what he did in 08. But you have to admit, we wouldn't have two rings had he not been there so I have to look at the whole picture even though he threw red paint on it at the end.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If he was willing to move to third I believe ARod would be a Red Sox. Once the Red Sox tried to move him it was all over
like a little baby . I am sort of with perkdog here. >>



No, not true. Pay-Rod was willing to take a pay cut to come to Boston in a trade for Manny but the MLBPA would not allow it (Pay-Rod and the Sox were trying to argue that increased endorsement income would make up for the pay cut).

Sox Trade for Pay-Rod >>




whoa whoa whoa... so a player cannot take less money to go to a better team/somewhere he would rather play because of the mlbpa?? If I was going to sign with a great team for $50mil or a terrible team for $80mil and the MLBPA was trying to tell me I had to take the money, I'd tell them to stick it!!
John >>



No, a Free agent can sign wherever he want for whatever he wants (although I have no doubt the union would lean on him heavily). In this case it was a trade proposal, where all parties agreed to the deal including ARod redoing his contract, yet the MLBPA blocked it.

TomGshotput

<< <i> If I was going to sign with a great team for $50mil or a terrible team for $80mil and the MLBPA was trying to tell me I had to take the money, I'd tell them to stick it!!
John >>



Then sign with the team you want to go to. That has nothing to do with wanting to renege on a contract after you agree to and sign your name to specific terms. Or give up union benefits and you'll be fine

bking

<< <i>

<< <i> If I was going to sign with a great team for $50mil or a terrible team for $80mil and the MLBPA was trying to tell me I had to take the money, I'd tell them to stick it!!
John >>



Then sign with the team you want to go to. That has nothing to do with wanting to renege on a contract after you agree to and sign your name to specific terms. Or give up union benefits and you'll be fine >>



How is agreeing to redo a deal AND TAKE LESS MONEY 'reneging' on a deal??

TomGshotput

He signed a contract for certain terms. Rather than live up to those terms he wanted to change them

bking

<< <i>He signed a contract for certain terms. Rather than live up to those terms he wanted to change them >>



Here's a thought - read up on the facts, then weigh in. He didn't WANT to change them - when the Sox balked at taking on his contract as-is, ans the Rangers balked at kicking in enough to assuage the Sox, he offered to redo it to make the deal work. I hate the guy as much as anyone, but saying he "reneged" on the deal is asinine.

TomGshotput

<< <i>He didn't WANT to change them ... he offered to redo it to make the deal work >>



So your only disagreement is with word choice, not what actually happened?

Unfortunately I don't have as much intimate knowledge of Alex Rodriguez to know the difference between his wants and offers

Connecticoin

The following year, Texas was so desperate to unload A-Rod, they kicked in $9m per year of his salary, leaving the NYY to pay only $16 million (a bargain). Had that been offered to the Red Sox the year before, they very likely would have taken it.

What is kind of funny is when Pay-Rod opted out of the final 2 years of that contract, he saved Texas $18 million. Totally dumb, because that was $18 million less the Yankees had to spend on his new contract. Not that $348 million would have made Pay-Rod any happier than $330 million anyway, but still stupid (actually it was Bor-Ass that was stupid).

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>He didn't WANT to change them ... he offered to redo it to make the deal work >>



So your only disagreement is with word choice, not what actually happened?

Unfortunately I don't have as much intimate knowledge of Alex Rodriguez to know the difference between his wants and offers >>



Actually, I don't have any intimate knowledge either, but I do read what is publicly available.

bking

<< <i>The following year, Texas was so desperate to unload A-Rod, they kicked in $9m per year of his salary, leaving the NYY to pay only $16 million (a bargain). Had that been offered to the Red Sox the year before, they very likely would have taken it.

What is kind of funny is when Pay-Rod opted out of the final 2 years of that contract, he saved Texas $18 million. Totally dumb, because that was $18 million less the Yankees had to spend on his new contract. Not that $348 million would have made Pay-Rod any happier than $330 million anyway, but still stupid (actually it was Bor-Ass that was stupid). >>



We're pretty happy he opted out down here. That contract was killing the Rangers chances to sign anybody

Paying the richest franchise in all of sports to take a top-5 player off your hands was just one more is a series of stupid ownership moves on the part of Tom Hicks.