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Reno coin dealer Rusty Goe buys 1876-CC 20¢ coin for $500,000!!

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Local dealer acquires $500,000 coin
By Steve Timko • stimko@rgj.com • June 4, 2009

Reno coin dealer Rusty Goe had a chance to buy a rare 1876 coin minted in Carson City in 2001 for a mere $161,000, but came up short in his offer. This year, the 20-cent coin came up for sale again and Goe, owner of Southgate Coins, grabbed it. But the price now was $500,000.
"I was willing to pay $750,000," Goe said. "I'm just going to savor it and admire it and just soak it all in for a time," said Goe, who has specialized in Carson City-minted coins for about 20 years. "Being in my business, you dream about owning these kinds of coins and then when the dream comes true ... you don't want the experience to fade away." What makes a coin so valuable? For one thing, only about 18 or 20 of these 20-cent coins from 1876 remain, Goe said. And he believes his is in the best condition, scoring 66 out of 70 possible points on a rating scale. Today, just about anyone has pennies, nickels and dimes on them, but Goe said smaller coins were rare in the western United States in the latter half of the 19th century. There were dimes and quarters, but not much else.

So if someone bought something worth 10 cents and paid for it with a quarter, the storeowner might only give a dime in change, keeping the rest. Nevada U.S. Sen. John P. Jones, a former miner, introduced legislation in Congress in 1874 that led to the creation of the 20-cent coin as a way to use up more of the Comstock silver, Goe said. It was minted in 1875 and 1876 out of less than a sixth of an ounce of pure silver. In 1875, the Carson City mint turned out 133,290 of the 20-cent pieces and still had many left over in 1876 when it minted about 10,000 more. But then the order came from Washington, D.C., to discontinue the 20-cent piece ­-- making it the shortest-lived U.S. coin ever -- and the remaining 1875 coins and almost all of the 1876 coins were melted and converted to other coins, Goe said. The major problem with the 20-cent piece was that it looked too much like a quarter -- a similar problem occurred more recently when the U.S. Mint issued Susan B. Anthony dollars that looked too much like quarters, he noted. Goe called Carson City-minted coins the most popular in coin collecting because of the historical significance of being connected to the Comstock Lode and being from a part of the United States that Mark Twain called the Gilded Age. The 20-cent piece is what he believes to the be the third most valuable coin minted in Carson City. The most valuable is an 1873 Carson City Mint dime with no arrowheads next to the date. Goe said he bought it in 2004 for $891,251 and sold it a few months later for about a million dollars. Now, he says it's worth about $3.5 million. Only one is known to exist, he said. Between the value of that dime and his 20-cent piece is a quarter from 1873 also without arrows near the date. Goe said there are five known examples of that coin.


Story Link


Edited to make the 20¢ look like 20¢
«1

Comments

  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    He's very passionate about Carson City coins. I'm sure he'll enjoy it a lot!
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    It's a shame...looks dipped. image
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.


  • << <i>It's a shame...looks dipped. image >>



    Exactly what I thought image
    image
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  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Fantastic coin and I'm very happy for Rusty. Its a dream come true for him, I'm sure.

    I see there's another 76-CC Double Dime in PCGS 58 coming up at B&M in a few days.

    Wonder where that coin will land up - wish it were in my set... image
    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    That is the same coin that was auctioned by Heritage at the 2009 April-May Cincinnati, OH (CSNS).
    Sold for: $460,000.00 (includes BP )
    Ended: Apr 29, 2009

    image
    image

    image

    Link

    Nice 40k flip.
  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hrmph! I thought there was some carbon on the thigh, but it looks like something on the slab, as it appears to move from one spot to another when viewing the coin photo and the slab photo side-by-side.
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,683
    At first I was ready to be completely outraged, as it looks from the above images as though the coin was (quite unnecessarily) dipped sometime after the Heritage auction. However, as the cert number has not changed, I can only assume that the apparent difference in color is only a function of the imaging.

    Still, I feel compelled to reiterate that the needless dipping of our national treasures is an outrage in most cases, and that artificial whitening is every bit as execrable as artificial toning.

    Regardless, congratulations to Mr. Goe for acquiring a coin that he has dreamed of owning. That is always a wonderful feeling !!

    Best,
    Sunnywood

  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    > It's a shame...looks dipped


    Not a turn on for me. I don't care how rare it is. Original skin trumps rarity in my eye.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kudos to Rusty!

    I would certainly like to own one some day...but then again...that's a lot of money for a poor teacher like me!

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would much rather have the 1894-S Barber Dime!image

    Also, these two coins do not look to be the same coin to me. There are marks on one that are not on the other.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would much rather have the 1894-S Barber Dime!image

    Also, these two coins do not look to be the same coin to me. There are marks on one that are not on the other.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    IIURC< he purchased the 73-CC no arrows dime (pop 1) a few years ago.

    (edited for typo - surprised nobody picked up on the date error, 73 vs. 74, other than a lurker friend of mine)
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690


    << <i>I would much rather have the 1894-S Barber Dime!image

    Also, these two coins do not look to be the same coin to me. There are marks on one that are not on the other. >>



    I concur. One's from China. The other's...the real deal. Now which one's real? image

    But seriously, the one that sold at Heritage has more obvious marks that distinguish it from the story photos. But strangely they share the same numbers on the slab. So it's probably just a case of dirt, slab scratches, and imaging techniques that allow the two sets of images to create an illusion that they are separate coins.

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    <<< At first I was ready to be completely outraged, as it looks from the above images as though the coin was (quite unnecessarily) dipped sometime after the Heritage auction. However, as the cert number has not changed, I can only assume that the apparent difference in color is only a function of the imaging. >>>



    Perhaps.........however PCGS has been known to dip a coin at the customers request under certain circumstances and then reholder it with the same cert number.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The provenance can be found in Greg Reynolds' recent article on CoinLink.com. Here's the relevant excerpt.


    "The Thomas 1876-CC Twenty Cent piece is PCGS graded MS-66. It has been in a PCGS or NGC holder, with a 66 grade, for a long time, at least since the mid 1990s. Though not mentioned as such in the Heritage catalogue, it is definitely the same coin that was auctioned by Superior in March 2001, at which time it was NGC graded 66. The Superior cataloguer identifies it as the Emery-Nichols 1876-CC, and my research suggests that this is true. Jay Parrino owned it during the 1990s. In 1984, it was in the Emery-Nichols sale by Bowers & Merena (NH), and then it was acquired by Andy Lustig. It was NGC certified MS-65 in or before 1988, as was the Norweb 1876-CC, which is also now PCGS graded MS-66. I hypothesize that the Emery-Nichols-Lustig-Thomas 1876-CC is the second finest known, and the Norweb 1876-CC is the finest. Neither the Emery-Nichols 1876-CC nor the Norweb coin has been offered at auction since 2001."
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would rather own this one. As much or more known about the provenance of this one, and it will hammer for around 25% of the Emery/Nichols/Lustig/Thomas specimen. And it's crusty to boot.image
    imageimage

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<< At first I was ready to be completely outraged, as it looks from the above images as though the coin was (quite unnecessarily) dipped sometime after the Heritage auction. However, as the cert number has not changed, I can only assume that the apparent difference in color is only a function of the imaging. >>>



    Perhaps.........however PCGS has been known to dip a coin at the customers request under certain circumstances and then reholder it with the same cert number. >>



    I never knew that !
    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • LotsoLuckLotsoLuck Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭
    Wow a half mil for a dipped coin....well...congrats Mr Goe!
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    coindeuce - Be careful! That coin is not really the worst known that is is being touted as. There is another that is far worse!
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    I purchased a beautiful uncirculated coin in the early 70's for $18000., and consigned it to the American Auction Association's first auction, I believe. I don't think that it brought $20k, even.
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have always wondered if classic cars can be restored correctly, they bring MUCH more money. If classic coins can be restored correctly, why is everyone pounding their feet? To each his own. Congrats to the buyer, the coin looks great to me.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If classic coins can be restored correctly, why is everyone pounding their feet?

    Dipping a lightly toned and completely original coin is hardly "correct" restoration.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>coindeuce - Be careful! That coin is not really the worst known that is is being touted as. There is another that is far worse! >>



    Uh, O.k. I like cheap!!

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I would rather own this one. As much or more known about the provenance of this one, and it will hammer for around 25% of the Emery/Nichols/Lustig/Thomas specimen. And it's crusty to boot.image
    imageimage >>



    image I'd feel better about this one.
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • 500Bay500Bay Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭
    He got the coin of his dreams - congratulations!
    We should all be so fortunate to be in a position to be able to do that.
    Finem Respice
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    Way to Goe, enjoy your coin.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"


  • << <i>If classic coins can be restored correctly, why is everyone pounding their feet?

    Dipping a lightly toned and completely original coin is hardly "correct" restoration. >>



    Right.

    Comparing classic cars to GEM classic coins is like comparing apples to airplanes.

    Often, classic cars are found rusted and busted. If a coin was rusted and busted, I'd say by all means try your best to restore it. But when a classic coin is correctly patinated with age, dipping it only destroys the originality that so many people look for.
    image
    To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Rustys other names are

    Go Rusty Go

    Rusty Go Go

    and lastly .... Rusty Carson City Goe


    Stewart
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I would rather own this one. As much or more known about the provenance of this one, and it will hammer for around 25% of the Emery/Nichols/Lustig/Thomas specimen. And it's crusty to boot.image
    imageimage >>



    That really is a great coin...

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>coindeuce - Be careful! That coin is not really the worst known that is is being touted as. There is another that is far worse! >>



    The E. A. Carson specimen is a VF.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • jhdflajhdfla Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭
    Congrats to Rusty!



    With regard to dipping and the opinions expressed in this thread:
    Dipping is to my mind at least one of the most egregious forms of doctoring in that a layer of the entire surface is obliterated. My preference has always been with original toned pieces, but that's just me. The TPG's have sanctioned dipping in that they will slab many "properly" dipped coins, and as some people prefer their coins this way, dipping continues. If you own the coin I suppose it's your property and you can do whatever you care to with it, and there's really nothing any of us who dislike the practice can do about it, it's accepted in the marketplace.

    john
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If classic coins can be restored correctly, why is everyone pounding their feet?

    Dipping a lightly toned and completely original coin is hardly "correct" restoration. >>



    Right.

    Comparing classic cars to GEM classic coins is like comparing apples to airplanes.

    Often, classic cars are found rusted and busted. If a coin was rusted and busted, I'd say by all means try your best to restore it. But when a classic coin is correctly patinated with age, dipping it only destroys the originality that so many people look for. >>



    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>He got the coin of his dreams - congratulations!
    We should all be so fortunate to be in a position to be able to do that. >>



    imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only mis-statement on my part was the predicted hammer of the Pick/Jurgensen/Frederick example. With a new record hammer price of $207,000 this AU-58 example was obviously far more desirable than expected.image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used to own the MS66 and I was the underbidder again in the most recent auction. Although it's a bit too bright for my tastes, it's still a very desirable coin.
  • rld14rld14 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭
    There's a huge difference between a restored Classic car and a coin.

    First, an automobile is a functional item that requires routine servicing and repairs, once a classic coin is slabbed, it's not like you need to ever touch the thing ever again. Also, originality does count with classic cars. I am into Porsche 356s, there's a VERY small handful of them out there in clean original condition. I know of a 1964 356SC Coupe with nice original paint and interior, original engine, basically it looks like a clean 5 year old used car. It's probably worth $75k+++ to the right buyer, while a show condition restored one is worth $50k tops and a restored "driver" that looks and functions as well as that original car is a $25-30k car.

    Besides, if you could restore a trashed AG Cull, you'd turn it into an MS65 coin that only a true expert could tell was restored, if you could do that to a trashed cull, I'd be tempted to say it would not be a bad thing, assuming that it was not passed off as original.
    Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
  • YaHaYaHa Posts: 4,220
    At least he invested in a nice coin instead of 105,000 home foreclosures on the market in his area.. Wow.. Way to Go..

    Also I love the spread C. C. mintmark..image
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rusty has a nice, professionally maintained B&M shop. Kudos to him and his acquisition.

    It's nice that the coin is close to its home.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Dipped or not I like it.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Thats great for him! I have a coin like that, but unlike him, I will never own mine. Im very glad some get to own that 'one' coin that calls to them.


    Great coin too! White or not, I like it.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No CAC?

    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Half a million dollars for twenty cents worth of silver.
    I like this concept we call coin collecting.
  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I purchased a beautiful uncirculated coin in the early 70's for $18000., and consigned it to the American Auction Association's first auction, I believe. I don't think that it brought $20k, even. >>




    Apparently the one in American Auction Association's (Bowers and Ruddy's auction division) May 1972 sale where listed as "...superb Uncirculated with an absolutely flawless surface". Also noted it had been ex-Jerome Kern; Edwin Hydeman; dealer Joe Flynn, Jr then an intermediary to an unnamed present owner. Cataloger stated "...we expect it to sell for close to $30,000.00". It brought $24,000. No buyer's fee in those days.

    Neat catalog that, among many other interesting things, also had an 1803 Proof Bust Dollar at $14,000. I think this one was much later slabbed Proof-66 and brought a little bit higher price.


    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I used to own the MS66 and I was the underbidder again in the most recent auction. Although it's a bit too bright for my tastes, it's still a very desirable coin. >>



    I, too, wish it had a little more toning.

    I track the pedigrees of 1876-CC Twenty Cent pieces. May I ask when you owned the Emery-Nichols-Lustig-Parrino-Thomas 1876-CC?
    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Half a million dollars for twenty cents worth of silver.
    I like this concept we call coin collecting.


    A bag full of dirt common modern paper gets you an incredibly rare piece of antique silver. I also like the concept!
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭


    << <i> With regard to dipping and the opinions expressed in this thread:
    Dipping is to my mind at least one of the most egregious forms of doctoring ... there's really nothing any of us who dislike the practice can do about it, it's accepted in the marketplace.

    john >>



    While I agree that dipping is usually harmful, it is counter-productive and inaccurate to refer to ‘dipping’ as coin doctoring. The first thing that you can “do about it” is to put forth sensible arguments that have a chance of persuading people to appreciate and strongly favor coins with natural toning and/or original surfaces.

    Doctoring is much more serious and often involves adding putty, plastics, car wax, thick colorful chemicals (that would not otherwise be found on coins) or other foreign substances. To educate people about doctoring, it is important not to confuse it with dipping.

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These pics dont do the coin much justice. The 76-CC 20c pieces have some amazing die polish and rust evidence.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>These pics dont do the coin much justice. The 76-CC 20c pieces have some amazing die polish and rust evidence. >>



    That is the Emery and Nichols Collection coin. I saw it in its Wayte Raymond page (where it had been for 40+ years) as part of the original collection in a home in upstate New York in the early 1980s. I remember my sense of awe at picking up the page, seeing it was complete, and seeing the doubling on the obverse before turning it over and KNOWING that the CC would be there.

    Dipping that coin is a crime against numismatics!!!!!

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>These pics dont do the coin much justice. The 76-CC 20c pieces have some amazing die polish and rust evidence. >>



    That is the Emery and Nichols Collection coin. I saw it in its Wayte Raymond page (where it had been for 40+ years) as part of the original collection in a home in upstate New York in the early 1980s. I remember my sense of awe at picking up the page, seeing it was complete, and seeing the doubling on the obverse before turning it over and KNOWING that the CC would be there.

    Dipping that coin is a crime against numismatics!!!!!

    TD >>



    Cooooooolllll...I wish I could have been looking over your shoulder.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces

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