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New palladium coin bill passed in the US 14th April 2009
bigbadchad777
Posts: 1,835 ✭
New palladium coin bill passed in the US 14th April 2009
New legislation has been passed by the US government which will allow the Mint to produce palladium versions of Saint-Gaudens' ultra-high-relief bullion coins.
In a bill introduced by Senator Max Baucus and passed on 1st April, palladium from the Stillwater Mine in Montana could now be used to manufacture the 0.995 fine one-ounce double eagle coins.
Under the terms of the agreement, no fractional ounce size issues will be made, although the edge of the coins can feature the raised lettering that characterised the original gold incarnation.
According to numismaster.com, the bill specifies the design as follows: "Exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimetre version of the 1907 double eagle ultra-high-relief gold piece."
In addition, the legislation states that "if a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued", each palladium version "may only be issued in a set containing one of each such coins".
Congress has also ruled that each set of coins must be "provided in a presentation case of appropriate design" and can only be issued and sold in the specific year of passage.
Senator Baucus and his co-sponsor, Senator Jon Tester, claimed in a recent press release that the palladium coins will help to create jobs and aid the battle against the economic downturn.
Figures suggest that 28,173 gold 2009 ultra-high-relief $20 double eagle coins were sold by the Mint on their first day of release, with that total now rising to 56,527, Coin News reports.
New legislation has been passed by the US government which will allow the Mint to produce palladium versions of Saint-Gaudens' ultra-high-relief bullion coins.
In a bill introduced by Senator Max Baucus and passed on 1st April, palladium from the Stillwater Mine in Montana could now be used to manufacture the 0.995 fine one-ounce double eagle coins.
Under the terms of the agreement, no fractional ounce size issues will be made, although the edge of the coins can feature the raised lettering that characterised the original gold incarnation.
According to numismaster.com, the bill specifies the design as follows: "Exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimetre version of the 1907 double eagle ultra-high-relief gold piece."
In addition, the legislation states that "if a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued", each palladium version "may only be issued in a set containing one of each such coins".
Congress has also ruled that each set of coins must be "provided in a presentation case of appropriate design" and can only be issued and sold in the specific year of passage.
Senator Baucus and his co-sponsor, Senator Jon Tester, claimed in a recent press release that the palladium coins will help to create jobs and aid the battle against the economic downturn.
Figures suggest that 28,173 gold 2009 ultra-high-relief $20 double eagle coins were sold by the Mint on their first day of release, with that total now rising to 56,527, Coin News reports.
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Comments
<< <i>Let's hope the mint ignores this legislation. >>
That is not an option.
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's hope the mint ignores this legislation. >>
That is not an option. >>
Why not? They never made the NASA 50th Anniversary coins that they were supposed to...
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If only a palladium coin, I;d think about a few of them, but if it's a set, I'd have to think it over pretty hard.
"and can only be issued and sold in the specific year of passage."
isn't that 2009?
seems close to impossible to do now.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Would the palladium UHR need to be thicker than the gold UHR, if both are one-ounce coins? I read that the density of palladium is less than 2/3 the density of gold. >>
Palladium has a density of 12.02, vs. 19.3 for gold.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Reminds me somewhat of the 1995-W silver eagle, which was available only as an optional "extra" in the gold 4-coin proof set of that year. The difference is that the 1995-W silver eagle was "free", while the gold-palladium UHR set will likely cost at least a few hundred dollars more than the gold coin by itself.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>In these troubled times, every portfolio should contain some palladium. >>
I want some plutonium coins too
that way I can look at them in the dark
Also, the legislation states that they will be "Exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimetre version of the 1907 double eagle ultra-high-relief gold piece."
Is this different than the gold coin issued in January? They are not EXACT replicas of the 1907 coin. So, if these are to be issued in sets, would a second gold coin have to be made to go with the Palladium since they're not exact replicas?
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My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Doing some quick math:
The volume of a troy ounce of gold is 1.61 cm^3, and our UHR double eagles at 27mm x 4 mm are 2.3 cm^3, so 0.7 cm^3 of empty space for the relief.
The volume of one ounce of palladium is 2.59 cm^3, allowing the same extra volume for relief, you get 3.29 cm^3. At 27 mm in diameter, that gets you a coin 5.75 mm thick.
I knew it would happen.
"In addition, the legislation states that 'if a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high-relief numismatic coins is issued", each palladium version "may only be issued in a set containing one of each such coins'."
Someone un-confuse me pleeeeeeeeeeeease..
- The Gold UHR has already BEEN issued.. the bill doesn't say "if a Gold buillion coin that bears the same design AND THE SAME DATE / YEAR .. is issued.."
- I thought the Gold UHR was a one year (2009 only) type / issue..
- If that's true, then the Palladium version would have to be issued in 2009, and sold ONLY with an accompanying Gold UHR in a fancy case, at a price some hundreds of $$ higher than the Gold UHR is selling for alone ($1289.00).. which is a $400.00 premium over an ounce of Gold.. or, roughly, 30%..
or..
- Is the Gold UHR going to continue into 2010 with a 2009 date?.. a 2010 date?..
or..
- Is the Gold UHR going to be a 2009 issue ONLY?..
therefore..
- If the Gold UHR IS only a one-year issue (2009).. then the Palladium coin would be issued by itself in 2010, at some premium over 1 oz. of Palladium, which is about 1/4 the price of an ounce of Gold.. yes? no?..
otherwise..
- If they crank out Gold UHRs into 2010, with a 2009 or a 2010 date, then the Palladium coin will NOT be issued by itself.. so we're talking about (probably).. $1600.00 or more for the pair, and the only way to get the Palladium version by itself would be if (some) folks buy the legally-badly-worded-mandated pair and break them up and sell the Palladium separately.. yes? no?..
A lot more folks could afford a $300.00 or $400.00 Palladium coin, than could afford (be forced to).. buy the pair at (probably) $1600.00 or more.. me, for one..
Can anyone clarify how they're gonna work this, or am I the only one sittin' here scratching my head and wanting some clarification?..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
It would be limited to 15,000 sets or 15,000 coins in total for the UHR palladium.
Another palladium bullion coin not in high relief would also be minted perhaps.
They may tell more about it:
Sources:
Palladium Coin Bill Introduced (09/04/09)
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=6546
Palladium Ultra High Relief Coins Come Back, S. 758 (03/04/09)
http://www.coinnews.net/2009/04/03/palladium-ultra-high-relief-coins-come-back-s-758/
House or Senate or both?
"Congress has also ruled that each set of coins must be "provided in a presentation case of appropriate design" and can only be issued and sold in the specific year of passage."
"can ONLY be issued and sold in the specific year of passage".. means, to me, that since the act was passed in 2009, and the Gold UHR is / was Minted in 2009, then the Palladium version MUST be sold in a two-coin set along with the Gold version, and not by itself.. so unless I just took a handful of stupid pills, it sure reads like there's not going to be any Palladium-only option, and we're looking at a set that, depending on the price of Gold whenever the Mint starts spewing these sets out, is gonna be in the neighborhood of $1600.00 to $1700.00 for a two-coin set.. bummer.. I could hack the price of just the Palladium coin, but the duo is more than a month's rent..
They should do what the Austrians do with their yearly 25€ Commemorative.. use Niobium (formerly Columbium).. a metal which has the interesting characteristic of changing colors depending on what temperature heat is applied to it.. the Austrians issue a ringed, bi-metallic Silver & Niobium coin each year, and the Niobium core / disc is a different color each year.. I think this year it's yellow.. Gold is yellow.. they could use Niobium and anneal it to the yellow stage and make a lower-cost UHR that *looks* like Gold out of a much cheaper metal.. but the US Mint will never do that.. the whole purpose of this Palldium coin is apparently a job-stimulus thing for US Palldium mines and miners.. not a means by which collectors can buy a less-expensive version of the UHR, and by wording it such that the Palladium coin has to be paired and sold with the Gold coin.. well.. mucho dinero
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>New legislation has been passed by the US government which will allow the Mint to produce palladium versions of Saint-Gaudens' ultra-high-relief bullion coins. >>
Is the key term "will allow" rather than "mandate" or "require?" Doe the mint have a choice?
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
How would that set work for First strike labels? Both the gold and pally coin would be fs eligible
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Prof. Otis Gumby
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My Adolph A. Weinman signature
It was introduced on April 1, 2009, then referred to committee where it still remains.
You can track it here:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-758
Also, here is a clearer summary of the proposed coins.
http://coinlegislation.com/saint-gaudens-double-eagle-palladium-coins-proposed/
Mint News Blog - US Mint News, Product Information, and Commentary.
S 758 IS
111th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 758
To authorize the production of Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle ultra-high relief bullion coins in palladium to provide affordable opportunities for investments in precious metals, and for other purposes.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
April 1, 2009
Mr. BAUCUS (for himself and Mr. TESTER) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A BILL
To authorize the production of Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle ultra-high relief bullion coins in palladium to provide affordable opportunities for investments in precious metals, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the ‘Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Bullion Coin Act of 2009’.
SEC. 2. PALLADIUM COIN.
Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in subsection (a), by adding at the end the following new paragraph:
‘(12) A $20 coin that--
‘(A) is 27 millimeters in diameter;
‘(B) weighs 1 ounce; . . . . . . {edit: troy. the NIST troy pound is the standard referenced in an earlier section}
‘(C) is of an appropriate thickness, as determined by the Secretary; and
‘(D) bears, on the obverse and reverse, the designs of the famous 27-millimeter version of the 1907 Augustus Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle gold piece, as described in subsection (u).’; and
(2) by adding at the end, the following new subsection:
‘(u) Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Numismatic Coins and Bullion Investment Coins-
‘(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning in 2009, the Secretary shall commence minting and issuing for sale--
‘(A) such number of $20 bullion investment coins as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate, that bear the design described in paragraph (2); and
‘(B) not more than 15,000 of the numismatic $20 coins that bear the design and meet the requirements of paragraph (3).
‘(2) DESIGN AND REQUIREMENTS FOR BULLION INVESTMENT COINS-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided under subparagraph (B), the obverse and reverse of the coins minted and issued pursuant to paragraph (1)(A) shall bear a likeness of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimeter version of the 1907 Double Eagle ultra-high relief gold piece.
‘(B) VARIATIONS- The coins referred to in subparagraph (A) shall--
‘(i) have inscriptions of the weight of the coin and the purity of the alloy in the coin raised on the edge of the coin;
‘(ii) bear the nominal denomination of the coin;
‘(iii) bear the date of issue of the coin on the obverse, expressed as a Roman numeral as in the original design; and
‘(iv) bear such other inscriptions, including ‘In God We Trust’, as the Secretary determines to be appropriate and in keeping with the original design.
‘(C) MINT FACILITY- Any facility of the United States Mint may be used to strike coins minted pursuant to paragraph (1)(A) other than the United States mint at West Point, New York.
‘(3) DESIGN AND REQUIREMENTS FOR ULTRA-HIGH RELIEF NUMISMATIC COINS-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- Subject to subparagraph (B), the obverse and reverse of the coins minted and issued pursuant to paragraph (1)(B) shall bear exact replicas of the original obverse and reverse designs by Augustus Saint-Gaudens which appear on the famous 27-millimeter version of the 1907 Double Eagle ultra-high relief gold piece and the edge of the coin shall have all appropriate raised lettering in the same manner as the original coin.
‘(B) VARIATIONS- The coins referred to in subparagraph (A) shall--
‘(i) bear a single finish that most closely approximate the finish of the original gold 1907 ultra-high relief gold piece as is practicable;
‘(ii) bear the nominal denomination of the coin;
‘(iii) bear the date of issue of the coin on the obverse, expressed as a Roman numeral as in the original design; and
‘(iv) bear such other inscriptions, including ‘In God We Trust’, as the Secretary determines to be appropriate and in keeping with the original design.
‘(C) MINT FACILITY- Coins minted pursuant to paragraph (1)(B) may only be struck at the United States mint at West Point, New York.
‘(D) FRACTIONAL COINS PROHIBITED- No coins issued under this subsection shall be made available as so-called ‘fractional’ coins.
‘(4) DISTRIBUTION IN SETS AND OTHER COORDINATION REQUIREMENTS- If the Secretary chooses, in accordance with subsection (i), to mint and issue a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B)--
‘(A) each palladium coin issued under paragraph (1)(B) may only be issued in a set containing 1 of each such coins;
‘(B) each set of coins described in subparagraph (A) shall be provided in a presentation case of appropriate design;
‘(C) the set described in subparagraph (A) may only be issued and sold in 2009; . . . . . . {edit: good luck!}
‘(D) gold coins issued in any set described in subparagraph (A) may only be struck at the United States mint at West Point, New York and no other gold coin issued by the Secretary that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B) may be struck at such mint at West Point; and
‘(E) no gold coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B) shall be made available as so-called ‘fractional’ coins.
‘(5) COMPOSITION-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- The coins minted under this subsection shall contain .995 pure palladium.
‘(B) SOURCE OF BULLION-
‘(i) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall acquire bullion for the palladium coins issued under this subsection by purchase of palladium mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within the 1-year period before the coins are minted.
‘(ii) PRICE OF BULLION- The Secretary shall pay not more than the average world price for the palladium under subparagraph (A).
‘(6) SALE OF COINS- Each coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary determines to be appropriate, but not less than the sum of--
‘(A) the nominal denomination of the coin;
‘(B) the market value of the bullion at the time of sale; and
‘(C) the cost of designing and issuing the coins, including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, distribution, and shipping.
‘(7) LEGAL TENDER- The coins minted under this subsection shall be legal tender, as provided in section 5103.
‘(8) TREATMENT AS NUMISMATIC ITEMS- For purposes of section 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
‘(9) QUALITY- The Secretary may issue the coins described in paragraph (1)(A) in both proof and uncirculated versions.
‘(10) PROTECTIVE AND ANTI-COUNTERFEITING COVER-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall give strong consideration to making the coins described in this subsection available only in protective covers that preserve the coins in the condition in which they are issued, allow clear and easy viewing of the obverse, reverse, and sides of the coin and protect it from movement within the holder, and also protect against counterfeiting of such coins or of the container.
‘(B) ACQUISITION- The Secretary may elect to comply with subparagraph (A) by producing and assembling such protective covers within the United States Mint or by contracting for the installation of such covers.
‘(11) FURTHER ANTI-COUNTERFEITING MEASURES-
‘(A) REPORT REQUIRED- In an attempt to forestall the counterfeiting or marketing of the coins described in this section, including this subsection, and of collectible, numismatic and rare coins in general, the Comptroller General shall, after consulting with the Director of the United States Secret Service and the Federal Trade Commission, and in consultation with hobbyists, numismatists, law enforcement agencies, and the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, shall submit to the Committee on Financial Services of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate, before the end of the 9-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of the Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Bullion Coin Act, a report detailing the extent of counterfeiting of rare, collectible or numismatic coins made available for sale in the United States, regardless of the country where the original of such coin was produced or of the country in which the counterfeiting takes place, or sales overseas if such counterfeit coins are unauthorized copies of coins originally produced by the United States Mint.
‘(B) CONTENTS OF REPORT- The report submitted under subparagraph (A) shall describe--
‘(i) the extent of such counterfeiting of coins and numismatic items;
‘(ii) the source of such counterfeiting, if known, including which countries may be the origin of such counterfeits if they are produced outside the United States;
‘(iii) the distribution and marketing channels for such counterfeits within and without the United States;
‘(iv) the effect of any such counterfeiting on hobbyists, numismatists and on the investment opportunities for bullion or numismatic coins produced by the United States Mint;
‘(v) whether such counterfeiting extends to the counterfeiting of coin-grading or protective materials in such a way that might imply that the counterfeit inside had been examined and authenticated by a reputable coin-grading firm; and
‘(vi) such recommendations for legislative or administrative action as the Comptroller General may determine to be appropriate to curtail or forestall any such counterfeiting.’.
The counterfeit report in section 11 is interesting.
not more than 15,000 of the numismatic $20 coins that bear the design and meet the requirements of paragraph (3).
*********************************************************************
Shall commence minting sounds like it must be minted in some quantity. It sounds though like it may be done past 2009 so it is a yearly issue perhaps.
the numismatic coins have a requirement, but it depends upon the minting of gold bullion (?) UHRs.
although this is confusing:
‘(D) gold coins issued in any set described in subparagraph (A) may only be struck at the United States mint at West Point, New York and no other gold coin issued by the Secretary that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B) may be struck at such mint at West Point; and
?????
‘(C) the set described in subparagraph (A) may only be issued and sold in 2009;
the rest? hmmmm... just seems like it must start in 2009.
and, hmmmmm............
‘(9) QUALITY- The Secretary may issue the coins described in paragraph (1)(A) in both proof and uncirculated versions.
but not paragraph (1)(B)??
Anybody else agree?
TD
I looked at the old congress record and see the house had the same bill that passed, H.R. 5614
Linky
It does seem though it is intended as a one year issue for the palladium UHR, to go along with the gold coin. The bullion coin though may be a new bullion series perhaps.
However based on the last legislature this may never get out of the Senate banking committee, it will probably end there.
H.R. 621: Girl Scouts USA Centennial Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Jan 21, 2009
S. 451: Girl Scouts USA Centennial Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Feb 23, 2009
H.R. 255: NASA 50th Anniversary Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Jan 7, 2009
H.R. 1195: Mark Twain Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Feb 25, 2009
S. 483: Mark Twain Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Feb 25, 2009
S. 653: Star-Spangled Banner Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Mar 19, 2009
H.R. 1177: 5-Star Generals Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Feb 25, 2009
S. 455: Five-Star Generals Commemorative Coin Act Introduced Feb 23, 2009
H.R. 1209: Medal of Honor Commemorative Coin Act of 2009
I can also foresee striking problems to bring up the relief on these. Palladium is much, much harder than 24k gold.
Shades of the problem that doomed the original UHRs in 1907....
Still, I will line up and buy these. I think Pd is way undervalued.
WhyYYYyyyYYYyYy in the world would they require a "Numismatic" Palladium UHR only be sold paired with a Gold one?.. Someone's gotta explain the logic behind that to me.. other than sheer greed.. I just don't get it.. sell the freakin' thing by itself.. and even with Palladium's much lower price per ounce versus Gold.. when you add in The Mint's typical premium, there are plenty of collectors for whom the Gold UHR is totally out of the question.. many still couldn't afford JUST a single Palladium coin.. look at the 2000-W Library of Congress Bi-Metallic, for example.. issue price of the Unc. was $390.00.. they only sold 6683 of them.. collectors found it too expensive, and ran away.. and yawl know what those are worth now, because of their ultra-low Mintage.. can you say "ten times issue price"?..
And.. since they're doing it for the First Spouses.. why not make a poor man's UHR out of brass or bronze and sell it for five bucks?..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
(4) DISTRIBUTION IN SETS AND OTHER COORDINATION REQUIREMENTS- If the Secretary chooses, in accordance with subsection (i), to mint and issue a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B)--
bullion... although they seem to use bullion and numismatic rather loosely in the law and define them differently for different purposes in various places of the code.
I'm hunting down a current version of subsection (i), the link provided is only current to sometime in 2007.
I think I have an attention getter which may improve the chances of an e-mail being read.
"(2) by adding at the end, the following new subsection:
‘(u) Original Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle Ultra-High Relief Numismatic Coins and Bullion Investment Coins-"
I can correct them and show them the laws where (u) is taken and it needs to be (v) instead.
after that we can have the airing of grievances~!
<< <i>I'm still puzzling over this:
(4) DISTRIBUTION IN SETS AND OTHER COORDINATION REQUIREMENTS- If the Secretary chooses, in accordance with subsection (i), to mint and issue a gold bullion coin that bears the same design as the ultra-high relief numismatic coins described in paragraph (1)(B)--
bullion... although they seem to use bullion and numismatic rather loosely in the law and define them differently for different purposes in various places of the code.
I'm hunting down a current version of subsection (i), the link provided is only current to sometime in 2007. >>
Ahhh.....
Moy and Paulson issued the UHR under the authority of no new law, but under the authority of subsection (i), paragraph (4), subparagraphs (A) and (B).
(i)
(4)
(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of law and subject to subparagraph (B), the Secretary of the Treasury may change the diameter, weight, or design of any coin minted under this subsection or the fineness of the gold in the alloy of any such coin if the Secretary determines that the specific diameter, weight, design, or fineness of gold which differs from that otherwise required by law is appropriate for such coin.
(B) The Secretary may not mint any coin with respect to which a determination has been made by the Secretary under subparagraph (A) before the end of the 30-day period beginning on the date a notice of such determination is published in the Federal Register.
Just give 30 days notice of the change in the Federal Register and they can change any coin!
(the $20 UHR is a different version of an existing gold coin, just with different face value, size, weight, design, etc. !!! )
calling all of them to be "numismatic" for the purposes of sections... forces sale proceeds to go to special funds.
reading other subsections of Section 5112 where the above came from and where the Palladium UHR is going, it is clear they are talking about the UHR minted by Moy-Paulson.
So.... my take is.... yep... the Palladium version that isn't for mass bullion investment sales will have to include a gold UHR with it as a set.
I can only imagine they once were doing this to ensure the non-mass made Palladium coins were sold by piggy backing them with the gold UHR.
However, now that the gold UHR is out.... will people spring for the two coin set? I wonder, especially since the gold UHR already cost them $1200-$1300.
Personally, I might buy the two coin set... but wonder... maybe I'll just buy the press-for-less investment palladium ones instead.
Question: Who would buy the two coin Palladium and Gold UHR dual coin set if issued???
<< <i>
Question: Who would buy the two coin Palladium and Gold UHR dual coin set if issued??? >>
I would, if I hadn't been thrown out-of-work a while back.. I had planned to buy the Gold, and was drooling over it when I first saw pictures.. but never did, because it's a month's rent.. but I could hack the Palladium version.. I'd just find an ~$300.00 coin or an approximately $300.00 something else in one of my collections of stuff to sell to cover it.. still, I'd prefer it to be yellow.. oh well..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..