B&M Dealers who don't take Credit Cards...

lkenefic

Do you purchase from B&M dealers who operate on a cash-only basis? I was prepared to purchase a couple of coins last weekend, but it all fizzled when the dealer at a local B&M "just said no" to plastic. He said he had been burned too many times in the past and the legal fees to go after the deadbeats would have been more than the coins he had sold. I guess he just decided to cut his losses but not accept plastic as a means of payment. Additionally, I made my first deal at my new locale a few weeks ago and the dealer bristled when I wanted to do a partial transaction on plastic and the rest in cash. To avoid the hassle, I just handed him cash.

Thoughts??

fc

i fully understand why they do not want credit cards and agree with them.

I just purchased some furniture and asked for 10% off. They turned
around and said no CC then. I said fine and made the purchase.

Why should they eat CC fees? I think they should not have too.

Simply tell them to hold the coins, visit your bank, and come back!

doh

I know quite a few B&Ms who don't take CCs. Too many fees with CCs...especially on lower margin items like bullion.

SilverEagles92

<< <i>I know quite a few B&Ms who don't take CCs. Too many fees with CCs...especially on lower margin items like bullion. >>



Another problem dealers have to try and prevent is credit card fraud. I've heard that perpetrators of fraud like to buy bullion items since they can be sold quickly, with little or no trace.

WinPitcher

Also some have to wait a few days to get paid when they accept CC.

Many business's take cash and check only.


Steve

lkenefic

I can see the fee angle, especially when it comes to bullion, but I was purchasing coins for a type set. I'm sure the margin was much more than CC fees since I was ready to buy at near Red Book! During the first transaction, I even offerred to absorb CC fees but the dealer still hedged so I acquiesced and just paid cash. We're not talking princely sums of money here... a couple of hunderd dollars. Even at 5%, the transaction fee would have been $10... which I was willing to pay.

adamlaneus

I have no problem with businesses that do not take credit cards. The credit card company charges somewhere between 2 to 3% of the total as their fee. I've always wondered why retailers eat that cost, probably because their margin is large enough.

Cash and checks are fine with me. Some dealers don't like to take checks if there is no prior business relationship, especially at a show, and I don't have a problem with that either.

In fact, anything that prevents the free flow of money out of my account seems to work to my benefit, as it prevents me from going broke.

COALPORTER

<< <i>Also some have to wait a few days to get paid when they accept CC.

Many business's take cash and check only.


Steve >>



Actually, right now, due to the banking collapse, some banks are withholding on paying stores the money that is collected. Did you read about what Wells Fargo is doing to some customers ? I wonder if places like Heritage will suspend credit card use until the bank problems clear up. If you take a credit card payment, you may not get the money at all.

notwilight

Lots of ebayers make offers with conditions "pay by check or MO". Makes it easier for me to take their offer since I save 2-3 %.--Jerry

notwilight

<< <i>
Actually, right now, due to the banking collapse, some banks are withholding on paying stores the money that is collected. Did you read about what Wells Fargo is doing to some customers ? I wonder if places like Heritage will suspend credit card use until the bank problems clear up. If you take a credit card payment, you may not get the money at all. >>



What is going on? WF is my bank and they seem to be well off as they are more stingy with their credit. WF and BA are reducing credit card exposure right now and calling credit cards in. What is this that you are referring to? --Jerry

PerryHall

I wonder how much of that cash is actually declared for tax purposes.

RYK

What's wrong with checks?

PerryHall

<< <i>What's wrong with checks? >>



They bounce?

zeebob

I wonder that every time I hand a stack of $100's to a dealer. But their jail time isn't my concern. I keep records of what I buy from where and what I sell to whom and I pay my taxes. I assume every dealer does the same or they are prepared to explain why not to the IRS.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>What's wrong with checks? >>



They bounce? >>


98% of the coins in my collection have been purchased with checks and that number goes to 100% when I look at transactions with local dealers in B&M shops.

Who walks around with $1000's in cash to buy coins? Super Bowl tickets, maybe, but not coins.

It's very simple. You don't take my check, and I don't buy your coin.

abitofthisabitofthat

<< <i>I can see the fee angle, especially when it comes to bullion, but I was purchasing coins for a type set. I'm sure the margin was much more than CC fees since I was ready to buy at near Red Book! During the first transaction, I even offerred to absorb CC fees but the dealer still hedged so I acquiesced and just paid cash. We're not talking princely sums of money here... a couple of hunderd dollars. Even at 5%, the transaction fee would have been $10... which I was willing to pay. >>



You can't pick which transactions will be credit card. Once you accept plastic, you are obligated (by your Merchant Services Agreement) to accept it for any and all transactions. This exposes a coin dealer to a lot of risk on things like bullion. Also, you cannot chage a customer a fee to use plastic - in most states it is illegal, and is also a violation of the merchant services agreement (BTW - Yes I know of many firms that do this, including some large numismatic retailers, but it is an invitation to a lawsuit). Just not worth the hassle.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>Also, you cannot chage a customer a fee to use plastic - in most states it is illegal, and is also a violation of the merchant services agreement. >>

True, but according to the UCC, credit card issuers are not allowed to prohibit sellers from offering a discount for payment by cash or check.

TwoSides2aCoin

If he's got a coin I want and prefers cash, I'll get the cash. Heck, if he wanted aluminum cans and it was a coin I wanted, I'd go buy beer with the credit card and party with him. Then I'd leave the cans and take the coin.

Boom

Someone already mentioned the main reason. When cash is involved the dealer can get around taxes (and the other stuff).

Fairlaneman

<< <i>What's wrong with checks? >>


I ran into a dealer about two months ago that preferred a check to greenbacks. She said her bank would charge her a fee if she took too much cash in at the same time. First time I had heard of this. I gave her a check after she looked into my eyes, she really did this, and determined the check was good.

Only one time have I used a credit card at a show or shop. Now its probably 50/50 check or cash. The credit card deal was a hassle.

Ken

MrOrganic

whats wrong with checks?

Fractional reserve banking! banks make $$$$$ on your money!

CC biggest ripoff's for the avg person!

Cash is king, why enrich these crooks/banks.

BBN

I curse the day that CCs were created. Sure some people here will tell stories of paying them on time and building flyer miles, but for every one that does this there are probably multiple card holders that keep a revolving debt. Yup, I agree that it is their own fault, but I can still hate them. Thankfully I am no longer indebtted to them. I built up a huge CC debt thanks to my own childish irresponsibility, but I put on my big boy pants and paid them off and will never own one again.

lkenefic

Yes, credit cards can be a real pain when you don't pay them off... but sometimes they're just darn convenient. Checks?? Does anyone actually pay by check these days? We have them, but virtually all of our bills are paid online or we use Debit cards...VISA Debit card associated with our checking account.

cars

My local gas station gives you 5 cents per gallon off your purchase if you pay with cash. They always have the best prices also.

BBN

<< <i>Yes, credit cards can be a real pain when you don't pay them off... but sometimes they're just darn convenient. Checks?? Does anyone actually pay by check these days? We have them, but virtually all of our bills are paid online or we use Debit cards...VISA Debit card associated with our checking account. >>



Yup, almost all of my bills are paid online. A few years ago I worte them all out at the same time each month, this was when I had four credit card debts, and it would take me a good 45 minutes to pay them all. Now, all of those CCs gone(thank you for the knowledge Dave Ramsey) and all of my monthly utilities are paid online, it takes all of 3-4 minutes to pay the bills.

mrearlygold

I do not accept credit cards. I did a long time ago but after getting burned a few times I changed my policies. For years now it's been Checks, Money Orders, Wires. Wires have probably accounted for nearly half of the business for at least 2 years and probably 90+% of the orders above 25K. It's the fastest and as soon as I have notification of the wires arrival we ship via express mail.

But I'm not a B&M shop anymore either.


Edited to add "and probably 90+%

JCMhouston

No problem for me, there is extra cost involved in taking plastic so I don't mind if it's cash only.

19Lyds

Wow!

I can't believe you folks are all gathered around the cc fee's and costs related to credit cards. Have you totally forgotten about the credit card charge backs that many slimey individuals pull?

I know of one dealer here in California that won't even consider a credit card for a purchase. Its almost as risky as taking a check which customers can do a "Stop Payment" on.

lkenefic

<< <i>Wow!

I can't believe you folks are all gathered around the cc fee's and costs related to credit cards. Have you totally forgotten about the credit card charge backs that many slimey individuals pull?

I know of one dealer here in California that won't even consider a credit card for a purchase. Its almost as risky as taking a check which customers can do a "Stop Payment" on. >>



So CC's can be associated with fraud and so can checks. Without holding the merchandise until the credit card or the check clears, I don't see how dealers can protect themselves unless they only do a cash-only business. I can see this... however, as a collector, I sort of bristle at having to carry a few hundred (or a couple of thousand) dollars in cash around with me into a major downtown metropolitan area known for armed robberies.

keets

i would assume that the majority of dealers will NOT take credit cards, will NOT take a check unless you are an established customer they know they can trust and absolutely prefer 100% to transact in cash only. if you can't understand things like that you should probably stay out of shops/shows and educate yourself.

airplanenut

<< <i>Who walks around with $1000's in cash to buy coins? Super Bowl tickets, maybe, but not coins. >>

Early on (I must have been about 10), my local dealer had two 3-leggers in, a PCGS 65 and 66 (pop 3). They were the first slabs I'd ever held, and the buyer came in with a briefcase of $100s. Of course, that was a great investment, since he got both coins for less than half of what the 66s have recently traded for.

My local dealer never took credit cards because of the fees. Cash and checks were happily welcome, and if I didn't have cash on me, he was always happy to hold my stuff so I could run to an ATM.

TwoSides2aCoin

Nearly 95% of my sister's business of singing telegrams is done with Credit Cards.
They're convenient and easy. A brick and mortar shop owner wants money for his goods. Another wants tracking for their services, although cash works.

PayPal works for me online, but one time a lady wanted to pay her roofing bill of $92,000 with a credit card. I won't name names, but I had to tell her I couldn't eat the $3,000 in fees associated with that transaction. She was a little upset because she wanted a trip to Australia with her air miles. While I empathized with her plight, I told her if she would pay the fees, I'll buy her the ticket to Australia.
It wasn't factored into the bid on the project Imagine a $100,000. coin. They're out there and so are the holders of cards with that much credit. Who should eat the fees ?

Goods & Services

Some of the risks associated with credit card usage are previously listed in this thread. Not everyone is going to agree on a method of payment, but when it's credit, it is a convenience and benefit for the customer, not the vendor. When its cash, it's a benefit for the vendor, and may be a serious inconvenience for a prospective shopper and potential long term customer.
Credit cards are great for tracking people, places, purchases and everything else, but if they inconvenience a person because they don't have cash on them and they're honest, I could appreciate the frustration they might feel if they wanted to buy a coin using one. Let's assume it's a stand alone B&M that doesn't have a cash dispensing machine nearby and a traveller passing through wants to spend a few hundy. Why lose a sale ? It may not be a bad idea to be set up to take them.
It would behoove shop owners to offer that service, too... even if it's not legal to charge them the fees.
But if a guy ripped that hundred thousand dollar coin from a 19 year old kid for twenty bucks, I'm sure he can afford the fees on the credit card processing.

I'd prefer a check for my goods if not cash.

atarian

The new place I visit takes CCs but they add tax to what your buying , I guess thats fair since they are cutting you a break if you pay in cash. But they dont charge the extra 1.5% or 2% that it cost them to take a CC. also doesnt hurt they take the card with a smile. Smile is worth something too

DoubleEagle59

I actually hope all businesses stop taking credit cards.

They are a curse on our society.

Nothing good has ever come from 'credit'.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>I actually hope all businesses stop taking credit cards.

They are a curse on our society.

Nothing good has ever come from 'credit'. >>



I said a mouthful, you said it better !

Barry

Credit card fees are a SMALL expense of doing business. Dealers are kidding nobody when when claim their margins are too small to accept them. Supermarkets used say the same thing. Bottom line, it's a convenience factor, just like Paypal on Ebay, and those that don't take CCs lose more business than the fees cost.

BTW, I've had a merchant account for 20 years. The fees average a tad over 2%. I've never had a chargeback.

BobSav

There is only one reason someone operates on a cash only business.

And we all know what it is.

The dealer will not admit to it and has to come up with some kind of story, but in the end it's all
about hiding the money from you know who..

Bob

PerryHall

<< <i>There is only one reason someone operates on a cash only business.

And we all know what it is.

The dealer will not admit to it and has to come up with some kind of story, but in the end it's all
about hiding the money from you know who..

Bob >>



See my post on this issue.

jdimmick

This is an intresting thread, becuase i just broke down an added a CC merchant account for the store. As mentioned it is against the merchant agreement account to add to the price for somebody paying by CC VS cash. You can however give a discount cash price. Bullion is a problem becuase the margin is tight. I simply quote bullion prices in cash price period. Most people buying bullion pay cash anyway from what I have found.

The up front cost to accept CC was quite expensive, cost me in the neighboorhood of 600 bucks to start up, and it will be a little while before it recoups, but it has been beneficial on the small purchase and supplies side of the sales.

These dealers that accept cash and dont show the sales are asking for trouble if they get audited. It sucks becuase I know many dealers who dont, and they end up making more than I do, but its not worth the risk to me to do it. Just last week, I had another regional dealer buy a few oz of silver bars from the store and paid in cash, he refused a reciept/invoice. Well the second he left, I recorded the sale anyway. That way I am not undershowing sales or hding profit margin.

jim

mrpotatoheadd

When it comes to receiving payment, as a seller on eBay, credit cards do not provide more of a benefit to me than checks or money orders do. As far as PayPal goes, they've caused me more problems than checks or money orders ever have. So if it's not a convenience to me, why should I be the one to pay the fee? I know- because the buyer doesn't want to, and in America today, somebody else should always be there to pick up the tab for the things people want.

BBN

<< <i>i would assume that the majority of dealers will NOT take credit cards, will NOT take a check unless you are an established customer they know they can trust and absolutely prefer 100% to transact in cash only. if you can't understand things like that you should probably stay out of shops/shows and educate yourself. >>



That's what the local dealer I trade with does. Mostly cash, no CCs and will take checks from familiar faces.

percyb

My B@M dealers don't accept payment with credit cards.

PerryHall

Ever pay for a coin by check and the dealer asks you to make the check out to "CASH"? I have.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>There is only one reason someone operates on a cash only business.

And we all know what it is.

The dealer will not admit to it and has to come up with some kind of story, but in the end it's all
about hiding the money from you know who..

Bob >>



Yeah, his wife. Have you seen what some of these guys have to go through being married , and all ?

element159

Paying by check can be dangerous. Your bank account and routing number is printed right there, and with that just information one can make withdrawals from your account. Be careful who you write checks to.

slinc

Yeah i've had the same thing happen i just went to a bank and came back as i really wanted the coins i was getting, whenever i went back in the future i just always brought cash with me. didn't really bother me just surprised me as not many places don't take credit cards nowadays.

lkenefic

<< <i>i would assume that the majority of dealers will NOT take credit cards, will NOT take a check unless you are an established customer they know they can trust and absolutely prefer 100% to transact in cash only. if you can't understand things like that you should probably stay out of shops/shows and educate yourself. >>



Whoa Cowboy!! As I said... I understand that the majority of dealers won't conduct business with credit cards and prefer cash. I get it. I just moved away from one who did and for the past five years have conducted coin business with cash, debit card, and credit card. Since I'm in a new region of the country [they charge tax on coins here in MD as well], I started this thread to get the thoughts and experiences of the rest of the forum.

RINATIONALS

<< <i>Ever pay for a coin by check and the dealer asks you to make the check out to "CASH"? I have. >>



Maybe years ago, but my bank won't let me deposit a check made out to anything else but the biz. One customer used to buy $50 worth of 90% every week using his paycheck & I'd give him back the balance but had to stop 3-4 years ago as the bank cosidered it a 3rd party check & would not allow me to deposit them any longer, so i think those days are over.
As to the cc issue - do you want to give up 2% of your income? I did tell people I'd be happy to take one of the checks they got from their credit card companies. One interesting point is when explaining to people why I didn't want to take a cc was that 80-90% had NO idea that it cost me money to accept it, they all assumed the cc companies made their money from those carrying a balance

WTCG

<< <i>Ever pay for a coin by check and the dealer asks you to make the check out to "CASH"? I have. >>



I have had that happen several times and my policy is to decline such requests without exceptions.

Accepting credit cards for payment is a positive step towards the convenience factor especially for a dealer who owns a store or who often deals with retail customers. Wholesale dealers generally do not have the need to accept credit cards for payment.

ALHENDER22

Its not just getting burned its how much it cost the dealer to use a credit card, espically on gold or silver.

RichieURich

<< <i>As to the cc issue - do you want to give up 2% of your income? I did tell people I'd be happy to take one of the checks they got from their credit card companies. One interesting point is when explaining to people why I didn't want to take a cc was that 80-90% had NO idea that it cost me money to accept it, they all assumed the cc companies made their money from those carrying a balance >>



It's way more than 2% of your income. If your gross margin on a coin is 10%, 2 percentage points is 20% of your income. If your gross margin is 20%, 2 percentage points is 10% of your income. Unless you obtained the coin for free or someone paid you to take it, 2 percentage points is always more than 2% of income.