The official Al "Ox" Wistert 2010 HOF petition thread

gregm13

All,

I created a petition to have Al "Ox" Wistert inducted to the NFL HOF in the Class of 2010. Please follow the link below and sign the petition. Also, please forward the link to your friends and family and have them sign. I'm going to write Mr. Wistert's ex-teammates and ask for their support.

Al "Ox" Wistert HOF petition

Greg M.

JasP24

No brainer here.

Best player from the 1940's not currently in the HOF. Let's get him in while he can still make his speech!

Jason

rube26105

al should have been in light years ago, was on the eagles back to back shutout slapdown teams that won it all 2 years in a row-almost 3- in the 40's before it was even the super bowl when there were 12 teams in football

gregm13

7 signatures thus far!

Greg M.

rube26105

i put a link on startiger.com too greg,that will help, is there a link on scn?

mccardguy1

I added my name to the petition. He should be in the hall!!!

Davemri

Greg, You may want to try to post your petition on other message boards as well such as.....

Network 54

PFRA

Football Guys

Football Board.com

Yahoo

CBS sports

Eagles message board. This may be your best bet?

And I'm sure there are others.

Dave

Reese3333

I've signed it as well! Great idea Greg. Al is way overdue!

otwcards

Crossposting this, but . . .

I'm in the process of building a website. I will add a page directing visitors to the petition. The website should be posted within the next week or so at: alwistert.com

Anyone wishing to contribute photos or images to add to the site, I would welcome them. Please feel free to PM them to me.

otwcards

Alright... So I decided to make this a priority. Bought the domain this evening and put together a quick website.

Take a look and let me know what you think. I'm looking for additional information and more images. I would love some images of high grade cards of Al's. If you can help out, let me know.

I'll spend some additional time on this with regard to the META tags and such so that this site will be near the top of Google's seaches. Look for it to reach the Top 5 within the next 4-6 weeks...

www.alwistert.com

gregm13

Awesome - great site! The only think I can offer are scanned auto'd cards, a few 3x5's and a pic of Early Greasy Neale that he signed.

Let me know. I really, really want Al Wistert's name to roll into the Senior committee this year as an unstoppable force that can't be overlooked.

Rgs,

Greg M.

Davemri

I just posted on Net 54. I will work on some of the others when I get some time today.

Dave

JasP24

24 so far, my lucky number...lol

Anyway, my guess is that we will need around 500 or so to make any impression on the Senior committee. Plenty of time to make that happen.

There are other senior candidates who also have large followings pushing their cause.

I don't think I've minced words in the past when saying that my #1 senior guy is LB Tommy Nobis. I've had lengthy conversations on him with one of the senior committee voters, and he does have some support there. I think they've just not been able to agree on which senior candidate LBs should be in and which should not with so many truly viable candidates. (Nobis, Dave Robinson, Chuck Howley, Lee Roy Jordan, Chris Hanburger, Randy Gradishar)...

Nobis WILL BE the first Atlanta Falcon to enter the HOF when his day comes. I'm confident he will get there, maybe even next year. Unless they go with Dick LeBeau, I think we will finally start to break that LB logjam. May or may not be Nobis, but one of those LBs at least..Plus an O-Lineman, and no reason the greatest player from the 1940's NOT in the HOF can't be the guy.

Jason

jradke4

Deon Sanders wont be the first Falcon in the HOF??

JasP24

<< <i>Deon Sanders wont be the first Falcon in the HOF?? >>



He will certainly be a first ballot guy in 2011...But he still calls himself a Dallas Cowboy...lol

Using that methology, the Falcons already have HOFers..Eric Dickerson played for them in 1993, and Tommy McDonald played for them in 1967...

So let me correct myself again for you. Tommy Nobis will be the first player who played the majority of his career for the Falcons to be inducted..That better?

Jason

jradke4

that i will give you.

sanders
89-93 Falcons (5 years)
94 Niners (1 year)
95-99 Cowboys (5 years)
00 Redskins (1 year)
04-05 Ravens (2 years)

JasP24

Also, Steve Largent was not the first Seahawk (Franco Harris) and Reggie White was the first Carolina Panthers HOFer...

Jason

jradke4

well and favre might be the second or third falcon. and forrest Gregg was the first cowboy.

but we digress...i would think many people see sanders as a falcon/cowboy. but i understand your main point about almost purely a certain team for Nobis. then again soon there probably wont be many more cut and dry certain team "only" players going into the HOF. It will be interesting to see how that is dealt with, as many people like to assign the number of HOFers from each team. This is how the HOF deal with it now.

Hall of Famers by Franchise

Franchise Members Totals | Defunct and Other Leagues

NOTE: In this listing - a Hall of Famer is named under all clubs on which he made his primary contribution to professional football - (i.e. - Chuck Noll is listed under Pittsburgh as a coach - but not under Cleveland as a player). Hall of Famers who made the major part of their primary contribution for any one club are listed in BOLD CAPS. In cases where a player contributed about equally and in a major way to two or more clubs - he is listed in BOLD CAPS under both clubs (ie. Nick Buoniconti is listed with both the Patriots and Dolphins as his primary teams). Hall of Famers who spent only a minor portion of their career with any club are listed under that club in lower case.

(The numbers inside of the parentheses following the team's name indicates the number of primary Hall of Famers followed by the number of Hall of Famers who spent a minor portion of their career with the team).

(Year) next to Hall of Famer's name is the year of his induction.

Generally HOFers even today dont move much...but there are some exceptions like Sanders. Would the HOF give him to both the Cowboys and Falcons?

KLS23

Great idea guys, I signed the petition. He is certainly very deserving. Mr. Wistert and I have corresponded twice and he seemed to be a very nice man. I have a great 1950 Bowman that he graciously signed for me last year. Let me know if anything I can contribute to the campaign or the website. Thanks.

Ken

JasP24

<< <i>

Generally HOFers even today dont move much...but there are some exceptions like Sanders. Would the HOF give him to both the Cowboys and Falcons? >>



Good question. Since he played equal seasons with both, could go either way or both. If you ask Deion or the Falcons organization, I think both would say Cowboys...lol

Jason

JasP24

<< <i>Alright... So I decided to make this a priority. Bought the domain this evening and put together a quick website.

Take a look and let me know what you think. I'm looking for additional information and more images. I would love some images of high grade cards of Al's. If you can help out, let me know.

I'll spend some additional time on this with regard to the META tags and such so that this site will be near the top of Google's seaches. Look for it to reach the Top 5 within the next 4-6 weeks...

www.alwistert.com >>



Scott, was reading the Wistert website you put up.

You have him being an 8-time 1st Team All-Pro, which according to my records is inaccurate.

Should say 4-time First Team All-Pro (1944-1947). I assume you got this write up from Wikipedia, which is typically about 50% correct. If you bring inaccurate stuff to the senior committee voters, they will toss your presentation aside faster than you can say Wistert.

Just trying to help the cause,
Jason

JasP24

Most 1st Team All-Pro selections for any of the current senior candidates:

Lavie Dilweg, WR- 6
Ox Emerson, OG- 5
Riley Matheson, OG- 5
Dick Stanfel, OG- 5
Del Shofner, WR- 5
Jimmy Patton, S- 5
Jerry Kramer, OG- 5
Chuck Howley, LB- 5
Jim McMillien, OG- 4
Al Wistert, OT- 4
Dick Barwegan, OG- 4
Bonny Dillon, CB- 4

So if one of the voters asked you what makes Wistert any more deserving than any of these guys, what would your response be?

Jason

otwcards

Jason:

Actually, it appears as though it is only 5 1st Teams, potentially 6...

1944 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 2nd team all-NFL
1947 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL/AAFC
1948 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1949 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL/AAFC
1950 - NY Daily News: 2nd team all-NFL
1951 - NY Daily News: 2nd team all-NFL

TheTalkingWalnut

Greg - PM me; I have a question for you.

JasP24

<< <i>Jason:

Actually, it appears as though it is only 5 1st Teams, potentially 6...

1944 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1944 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1945 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1946 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 2nd team all-NFL
1947 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1947 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL/AAFC
1948 - Chicago Herald Am.: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - Pro Foot. Illustrated: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - NY Daily News: 1st team all-NFL
1948 - UPI: 1st team all-NFL
1949 - Int. News Service: 1st team all-NFL/AAFC
1950 - NY Daily News: 2nd team all-NFL
1951 - NY Daily News: 2nd team all-NFL >>



What am I missing...I'm only counting 4 of these----Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL

All the others are not recognized by the HOF committee as official All-Pro status. As you know, many agencies name All-Pros, MVPs, Off/Def Player of the Years..But the HOF committee settled on the AP as the All-Pro's that mean anything years ago. Specifically 1st Team All-Pros...Many sites like to say a guy was a 6 time All-Pro, when in truth 4 of them may have been 2nd team. A guy can be a 2nd team All-Pro with literally 1 All-Pro vote. So those are not good measuring sticks.

Wistert certainly doesn't need his credentials fluffed. Saying 8 or 6 or even 5 time All-Pro is going to take some credibility away from the argument for guys who know their stuff and have access to all of the correct information. (i.e. the senior voters)

Jason

gregm13

<< <i>Most 1st Team All-Pro selections for any of the current senior candidates:

Lavie Dilweg, WR- 6
Ox Emerson, OG- 5
Riley Matheson, OG- 5
Dick Stanfel, OG- 5
Del Shofner, WR- 5
Jimmy Patton, S- 5
Jerry Kramer, OG- 5
Chuck Howley, LB- 5
Jim McMillien, OG- 4
Al Wistert, OT- 4
Dick Barwegan, OG- 4
Bonny Dillon, CB- 4

So if one of the voters asked you what makes Wistert any more deserving than any of these guys, what would your response be?

Jason >>



Jason,

From what I read, didn't Wistert revolutionize blocking techniques? He favored and argueably perfected the upright blocking technique which wasn't widely used throughout the league at the time. As with any player that revolutionized and dominated a position for multiple years, Wistert absolutely belongs in the HOF.

Does Dilweg suffer because of the Hutson shadow effect?

Rgs,

Greg M.

cardbender

<< <i>Most 1st Team All-Pro selections for any of the current senior candidates:

Lavie Dilweg, WR- 6
Ox Emerson, OG- 5
Riley Matheson, OG- 5
Dick Stanfel, OG- 5
Del Shofner, WR- 5
Jimmy Patton, S- 5
Jerry Kramer, OG- 5
Chuck Howley, LB- 5
Jim McMillien, OG- 4
Al Wistert, OT- 4
Dick Barwegan, OG- 4
Bonny Dillon, CB- 4

So if one of the voters asked you what makes Wistert any more deserving than any of these guys, what would your response be?

Jason >>



From this list, the two most deserving players who played most of the their careers pre 1960 are Dilweg, who's long overdue, and Wistert. Stanfel, maybe third. ImHO.

Dilweg is forgotten because of the giant shadow cast by the great Don Hutson. Dilweg was a better two-way player than half of the guys in the Hall from his era. He was way better than Guy Chamberlain.

JasP24

<< <i>

From what I read, didn't Wistert revolutionize blocking techniques? He favored and argueably perfected the upright blocking technique which wasn't widely used throughout the league at the time. As with any player that revolutionized and dominated a position for multiple years, Wistert absolutely belongs in the HOF.

Does Dilweg suffer because of the Hutson shadow effect?

Rgs,

Greg M. >>



Greg, THAT is probably his best selling point..Because his All-Pro selections do not distinguish him over other O-Lineman in the senior candidate pool. But if that is true and can be proven, that certainly is what needs to be the focus of his push.

Story on Dilweg:

(See link below)

Jason

BigDaddyBowman

Here is an article about Dilweg for those who are not familiar with him.


Laverne "Lavie" Dilweg Article

JasP24

<< <i>Here is an article about Dilweg for those who are not familiar with him.


Laverne "Lavie" Dilweg Article >>



Looks like we both found the same thing at the same time...lol

Jason

gregm13

I'm updated slightly. Can someone help edit the text on the web site?

Rgs,

Greg M.

cardbender

Guys, thanks for posting that article about Dilweg.
He might be the most deserving pre WW 2 player not enshrined
in Canton.

JasP24

<< <i>Guys, thanks for posting that article about Dilweg.
He might be the most deserving pre WW 2 player not enshrined
in Canton. >>



He is definitely the best player from the 1930's not inducted...Just like Wistert from the 40's...And just when you think these old timers are completely off the HOF committee radar, they select a Marshall Goldberg or a Benny Freidman and Fritz Pollard as the senior candidate.

The senior selections are much tougher to predict, as they do not seem to follow much of a pattern like the modern elections do. Dilweg has just as good a chance as Wistert or Jerry Kramer or Randy Gradishar or even Bob Kuechenberg now...Although i think it would be unlikley for them to select 2 pass catchers in back-to-back years.

Jason

JasP24

Only 42 sigs so far????

I wouldn't even bother sending that to any voters as a show of support...lol

Seriously, John Brodie has the same type petition with 612 sigs...Floyd Little has one with around 300..LC Greenwood has one with over 1,000...

Jason

tnspro

Tony Latone is the most deserving pre WWII player not in the NFL HOF.

Tony Latone article

Sign the Petition for Tony Latone

gregm13

Check out the recent signature on Al Wistert's petition:

Marilyn Mathews - Please induct this great football player into both the Pro football Hall of Fame and the philadelphia Eagles Honor Roll. I am his caregiver and Al is a really great guy and this is his dream before he dies. Thanks.

Pretty cool that his caregiver signed the petition.

Rgs,

Greg M.

otwcards

Greg:

After some discussions with Philly and NY radio producers, it looks like we'll be getting some spots on the afternoon sports shows. I have spoken with Al and he is agreeable to doing some on-air interviews and those are to be scheduled in the near future.

Also, after speaking with the producers and explaining the online petition, they asked that we have a way to review the database. Also, the two Senior Committee members that I have corresponded with have stated that any online petition submitted will need to be accompanied with a database record to veritfy/authenticate the legitimacy of the signers.

To this end, I have started a new petition that is directed to and from the www.alwistert.com website and uses the www.alwistert.com email. After discussions, it was concluded that this would be the most effective and significant way to acquire and present the accumulated data.

I hope you take no offense to setting this up and to promoting it. I appreciate your efforts, but with the direction that this is going in the near future, I needed a vehicle that I would have access to and be able to systematically cleanse of false or unacceptable signatures.

Anyone wishing to add their signature to the "new" petition, please feel free to visit it at: Al Wistert Petition.

Hopefully, those that are making a personal attempt to sabotage this effort on the "Kiddie Board" will cease from doing so here...

JasP24

Scott, I will definitely be adding my vote to your new petition. I hope you can get the number of signatures upwards of 500-1000 so it can really help the cause.

Best of luck with your efforts!
Jason