"Irish Numismatics" Journal -- Help on c/m?

Daltonista

[Image pasted in below]

Has anyone seen this "J.B. 1811" countermark before? Host coin is an 1806 Ireland 1/4d.

Byrne and Pridmore & a dozen old auction catalogs are getting me nowhere. Tried Withers too, where the closest I can get is a citation provided for an article by F. Heaney entitled "Countermarks of Irish Interest" in the March/April 1975 issue of Irish Numismatics.
Are there any forum members who can just pull this off the shelf and take a look for me?

Many thanks in advance for any clues as to attribution.

Have a great holiday weekend! (Stateside, that is...)

Tom
Clueless in Upstate NY

farthing

I have a copy of British Countermarks on Copper & Bronze Coins by J. Gavin Scott, where this countermark is discussed as follows:

"209 of these pieces are discussed, and 191 described, in Michael Dooley's "A parcel of countermarked early nineteenth-century farthings Irish". (Numismatic Society of Ireland Occassional Papers 15-16, 1973). An additional farthing, believed to be from the same source, is in Mr. A. G. Davies' collection. The author's specimen, in contrast to the 210 known farthings, is a countermarked penny of 1797."

"In view of the amount of wear on the Anglo-Irish farthings of 1806 (average weight 4.10g., compared with rescribed standard of 4.36 g.), Dolley suggests that they may have been countermarked after the Irish pieces were demonetised in 1826. This demonetisation was less effective in Ireland than in England, where Irish coins were accepted reluctantly or not at all. His theory is that the coins were sold in England as scrap copper, perhaps about 1830, the purchaser using them as blanks for truck tickets destined for premises in Lancashire or Yorkshire, but not circulating them because of the passing of the 1831 Truck Act. This leaves unexplained the date 1811 on the countermark, unless either it is not intended to be read as a date or it refers, as Dolley suggests, to the date of a firm's foundation. Were it not for the wear on the coins, one might be tempted to suppose that these pieces served as tokens for a short time about 1811 until proper dies for a token issue had been prepared, when they were recalled. Copper tokens were issued in the early nineteenth century by a number of traders with initial JB:
Gloucestershier: Cheltenham
- John Bastin, Penny 1812 (Davis 14)
- John Bishops & Co. Penny 1812 (Davis 15)
Middlesex: Walworth Road
- James Bean, Farthing 1814 (Davis 8)
Northumberland: Newcastle
- John Bell, Farthing 1815 (Davis 18-24)
It should, however, be remembered that copper coins wear far more easily than our modern bronze issues, and that, in the early nineteenth century, such low denomination coins had considerable use."

I do find the idea that this may have been a pre-cursor to the great token wave of 1811+ to be quite interesting. At least this gives you another source reference to look for.

Daltonista

Truck tickets!
This is fabulous stuff, Farthing!
You are truly a gentleman and a scholar...with a great library, too!
Many thanks ~
Tom

lordmarcovan

No clue at all from me, but it's neat.

Edited to second the kudos to farthing.

IloiloKano

I'm almost certain I saw that countermark on a liquor bottle somewhere.