Does anyone have a picture of a Peace Dollar that was struck on a type 1 planchet? Pics added..

guitarwes

I got this Peace Dollar today that doesn't have raised rims on it. I was thinking it might be PMD, but I'm not quite sure being that it's uniform on both sides.....???

Does anyone have a pic handy of one of these? thanks.

-wes

MrEureka

What grade is your coin?

guitarwes

Appears to be low AU/high EF.

RWB

A photo would help.

FredWeinberg

Scans would be nice, but in general,
if it were struck on a T.1 (no upset rim)
Blank, it would be either a partial collar
strike, or a broadstrike.

Type 1 Blanks are larger in Diameter than Type 2 Planchets.

There are easy ways to authenticate a Partial Collar or
Broadstrike as being on a Type 1 Planchet.

guitarwes

pics coming in a sec.

guitarwes

Quick pics. The rims are beveled down towards the reeding. It appears to have a very slight lip of a rim on the top of the Obverse.

MrEureka

The rims are beveled down towards the reeding.

Isn't that proof that it's a T2 planchet?

Broadstruck

guitarwes, please provide some edge pics of the rim... but based on your obverse/reverse pics there's nothing particularly special on this coin.

The San Fran 22, 23, and 25 Peace $1's come really sloppy at times and I've seen many with a bit of a touch of a finned rim or slight MAD.

tahoe98

.........i'd be curious to know what fred thinks.

FredWeinberg

I'd say there's a strong possibility
that the coin has been 'shaved' on
the edges.

It's not a Type 1 Blank, nor some type
of striking or planchet anomaly.

Machined edges, imo

Broadstruck

<< <i>I'd say there's a strong possibility
that the coin has been 'shaved' on
the edges.

It's not a Type 1 Blank, nor some type
of striking or planchet anomaly.

Machined edges, imo >>



I mentioned to PMD Post Mint Damage to guitarwes in a quick message... but keep trying as new Peace $1 Error discoveries are always welcome!

MrEureka

This is a 1922-S die adjustment piece. I wish this picture was better but it will give you an idea what an unstruck 22-S T2 planchet should look like. The beveled rims - most notable on the lower right reverse - are from the planchet preparation, not from the dies or the striking process. Based on this coin, I'm pretty sure that the GuitarWes specimen is not damaged.

guitarwes

the reverse of that coin look very very similar to what the rims of mine look like.

Thanks for posting that one MrEureka!

-wes

cmerlo1

I think the beveled edges are characteristic for 1921 Morgans and 1920's Peace dollars from the San Francisco mint. In fact, I can usually tell if the coin is from SF, just by looking at the rims for the bevel effect. I'm not sure why this is. Roger Burdette may know the answer, since he recently finished his Peace Dollar book...

--Christian

Broadstruck

The image of the 1922-S die adjustment pieces rim is deceiving as its in a PCGS holder.

FredWeinberg

I'm very familiar with the rim charactoristics
of the "S" Mint Peace Dollars, but based on
the scans, I still say it's been machined.

Maybe it was in a counting machine or ?

Look at the fine lines on the rim, especially
on the right side of the obverse.

I'll be at the Long Beach show next month,
and I'll be glad to view it there if you'd like.

CaptHenway

The upsetting mills at different mints in different years pushed the upset rims on the type two planchets inwards to varying degrees, depending on the exact shape of the "shoe" the blanks were rolled in.

This can be illustrated by studying off-center coins where the dates and/or mint marks can be determined. S-mint dollars from 1921 on tend to show the high part of the upset rim well in from the edge of the planchet. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing unusual about the coin illustrated.

That said, it occurs to me that the one off-center CC dollar that I ever saw also had the upset rim well in from the edge. This is consistent with the tendency for many CC dollars to have strong denticled borders surrounded by rims that fall off sharply.

That in turn make me want to speculate that perhaps when they decommissioned the Carson City Mint in 1900 (sending CC reverses back to Philadelphia to be recycled into O/CC reverses) they also shipped any usable hardware to the nearby San Francisco Mint. If so, and that is a big if, then perhaps the CC upsetting mill shoes eventually got placed into use in San Francisco, causing S-mint dollars with rims that taper off sharply.

TD

RWB

The diameter of blanks, and the amount and angle of upset imparted to the planchet was often different for each mint depending on the type of presses they had. There are multiple letters in the archives describing punch diameter, etc. Although different requirements were more common during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, it still occurred during the Peace dollar era. The mints also prepared blanks for one another so that equipment was kept running at all three mints. (This was also a period with US Mints were making coinage for other countries. [Speculation…] It might have been more efficient for a mint, SF for example, to continue rolling and cutting foreign planchets, and receive dollar planchets from Denver. If Denver planchet specification did not exactly match SF equipment, some unusual looking coins might have resulted and been accepted.)


PS: Carson Mint equipment was sent to New Orleans. I;ve seen a long inventory list someplace, but can't remember the exact file location. It's in my index notes.

coinpro76

@guitarwes said:
I got this Peace Dollar today that doesn't have raised rims on it. I was thinking it might be PMD, but I'm not quite sure being that it's uniform on both sides.....???
Does anyone have a pic handy of one of these? thanks.

Another 1922s Peace dollar with no raised rims found...
Our example 38.15mm 26.72 grams EF/AU and we cannot identify any indication of PMD
Our coin also has DDO characteristics with doubling to the left of all numbers in date
The best explanation I have seen posted is by @MrEureka
That it is a die adjustment piece. Does anyone else have an example?

@guitarwes do you still have your example? Any further info appreciated thank you.

Here are some images of our example:

MrEureka

As far as I'm concerned, the rims on the above coins ARE raised, so I don't think we're all on the same page here.

ChrisH821

22-S have beveled rims. This is completely normal.
From Coinfacts https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1922-s-1/7359
"The typical piece is rather shabby in appearance, with incomplete lustre and/or raised lines in the field from abrasions acquired by the die during the surfacing process. In the left obverse field IN GOD WE is often weakly struck. The center of the reverse is usually poorly struck and is often dull on the higher points of the eagle, where marks acquired by the original planchet can often be seen. As if this were not enough, the rims are often indistinct in areas; what Wayne Miller and John Highfill call "fade-away rims.""

coinpro76

Thank you all for the response, and info.