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A Question for So-Called Dollar Experts Regarding HK-300 Through 304 (1904 Medal)

numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

Regarding the 1904 official medals of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition, does HK-301 (copper version) actually exist? Could it be that dealers and collectors have claimed to have copper versions when in fact they had bronze examples? The copper is listed as an R.6 (21-75 known), whereas the bronze is listed as R.3 (501-2000), so I have witnessed many times where a dealer or collector will attribute their piece as the R.6 version (human nature, I guess). That being said, I do recall buying an example several years ago that certainly looked like copper. I sold it long ago, so I cannot double check myself. What are your thoughts on this issue? For the researchers, did you find any contemporary documentation that itemizes the metals used by the Mint Exhibit?

Also, what is the difference between HK-300 (gold-plated bronze) and HK-304 (gilt bronze)? Aren't they the exact same thing?

Comments

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the Copper version certainly exists. i have one and alongside the Bronze striking their is a noticeable difference, especially in how the different metals tone. the Gold plate and the Gilt Bronze also exist seperately and aren't the same thing. i don't know what the gilding? is on the HK-304 but again, if you have the two side-by-side you can tell the difference.
  • I have a related question regarding these So-called dollars..

    I noticed that there are two different reverses for these medals. On one reverse (which appears to be much more common), there is a star with rays denoting the location of St. Louis on the reverse map.

    On the second, of which I have one example, there is no star at all.

    Is this distinction noted in any of the reference catalogs, and is there a seperate designation for the two reverses?

    Thanks!
    Mark
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162
    Nice to see your post Dennis. image


    Found this on Heritage:

    Louisiana Exposition Three-Piece So-Called Dollar Set. Silver/copper/gilt. A three-piece set of so-called dollars related to the 1903-04 Louisiana Exposition: HK-299, silver; HK-301, copper (rare); and HK-304, gilt:


    imageimage



    1904 Louisiana Purchase in Copper, HK-301, AU50 Uncertified. Copper, 33.3 mm, "extremely rare" according to the 1963 Hibler-Kappen catalog and previously unreported at the time the catalog was written. This glorious and lustrous uncertified piece is close to Mint State in terms of wear, but shows a couple of minor rim bumps. We would net grade it as AU50, but it remains an extremely appealing example. The 1963 Hibler-Kappen valued an XF copper example at $100, so long ago...


    image
    image
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭
    yes

    imageimage
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the piece posted by duiguy looks to be copper for certain, the piece in the Heritage 3-pc. link seems to be a bronze and the Heritage link to the large piece looks more like a bronze medal than a copper. these are difficult to differentiate.
  • Any thought / comments on the different reverse strikes per my question above?

    I didn't mean to resurect the thread for the discussion of copper vs. bronze, but I have to admit, that has been helpful as well!

    I'll try and post some photographs to show what I'm asking about later this evening.

    - Mark
  • Here's images of the two different reverses on the L.P.E. So-Called Dollars I have.

    One has a star at the location of St. Louis, the other does not.

    Is this distinction noted in any of the reference guides?

    Thanks!
    Mark

    image
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    William Swoger's reference on National Commemorative medals lists six varieties:

    No star
    star with 20 thin rays (8 east and 12 west of the Mississippi River)
    star with 22 thin rays (9 east, 13 west)
    star with 23 rays (9 east, 14 west)
    star with 23 rays (10 east and 13 west)
    star with 23 rays (11 east and 12 west)

    I'm not planning on collecting by ray-counts any time soon... image

    FWIW, he argues that there is no difference between bronze/copper or between gilt/gold-plated. Personally, I still haven't decided.

    image

    image

    imageimage
  • Thank you! That's very interesting information.

    - Mark
  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    Is mine the copper or brass one? I could never really tell for certain
    image

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