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Is this 18/7D net graded by ANACs??

I've had this 1918/7D Buffalo for some time. It's in an old ANACs holder. Compared to many VG8's in top tier TPG's it seems to be quite sharp and detailed. However, there is a void in the bison's side. It looks more like a planchet defect than a gouge, but it could be either. I suspect it brought the ANACS grade down via net grade assessment. Does this coin have any chance at an upgrade or even being able to be crossed to PCGS or NGC at its current VG8 level? Or is it a "leave it alone," it will find its market value, coin?
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Wisconsin nationals: gotta love 'em....

Comments

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the defect looks like a lamination peel to me. The six digit serial number tells me it is an older ANACS holder and perhaps was graded conservatively as was the flavor of the day.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    My limited knowledge guess; I'd vote planchet flaw. Not sure how PCGS handles planchet flaws, I think I have seen coins graded by PCGS that just have the flaw noted on the holder. If that is the case it might go F15-VF20.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
    BB at PCGS.


  • << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>



    I'll wager any sum of money that it's a minor lamination and that it would grade.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>



    I'll wager any sum of money that it's a minor lamination and that it would grade. >>



    Never realized this thread had so much potential when I first opened it. image


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>



    I'll wager any sum of money that it's a minor lamination and that it would grade. >>



    I would also take that wager. For a coin like this, and the miniscule nature of the lamination, it would not bag at PCGS, or NGC, or ICG, or any other service.
    image
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  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
    It's a planchet lamination.
    It is not net graded.
    Until very recently, the percentage of horn remaining was the grade diagnostic. If half the horn remained, the grade was VG.
    Fine required 2/3 horn. This coin is VG by those standards.

    References: Blue Book (1968), Photograde (1988), Fourth Edition Brown and Dunn (1966), Official ANA Grading Guide, Second Edition (1981)

    Actually, the ANA Grading Guide says 3/4 horn is required to make Fine.
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a nice VG8 example with a minor lamination. I'd submit it in a second.


  • << <i>It's a planchet lamination.
    It is not net graded.
    Until very recently, the percentage of horn remaining was the grade diagnostic. If half the horn remained, the grade was VG.
    Fine required 2/3 horn. This coin is VG by those standards.

    References: Blue Book (1968), Photograde (1988), Fourth Edition Brown and Dunn (1966), Official ANA Grading Guide, Second Edition (1981)

    Actually, the ANA Grading Guide says 3/4 horn is required to make Fine. >>



    References from the 1980's are obsolete by todays standards.

    ANACS called this a VG
    PCGS called this a VG

    Clearly, the coin in the OP is better
  • DoctorPaperDoctorPaper Posts: 616 ✭✭✭
    The reason I brought this up was that I was looking at recent auction sales on the Heritage site, and the VG8's there (PCGS and NGC) were clearly inferior, virtually no horn showing, almost no buffalo eye, and very faint dates. Seems like there might have been a shift in grading standards of these coins, at least in lower grades.
    Wisconsin nationals: gotta love 'em....
  • goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    Nice VG-VG+

    Lamination.
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    I agree with goose3
  • I'd not expect it to BB at PCGS or NGC, and think it has a bit of a shot at a 15, more likely a F12 or a VG10 at the worst... either way, an upgrade. I don't think the lamination is a big issue on this coin.

    Personally I'd like it as a F12.
  • DoctorPaperDoctorPaper Posts: 616 ✭✭✭
    OK, so if I send it in for a crossover, is it better to leave it in its current slab or to crack it out and send it raw. I'm balancing biasing the graders ro downgrade it based on the old VG8 assessment vs. the risk it gets BB'd. What's your recommendations?
    Wisconsin nationals: gotta love 'em....
  • UncleJoeUncleJoe Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭
    I think this is a solid VG-10.

    Joe.
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>



    I'll wager any sum of money that it's a minor lamination and that it would grade. >>



    $50 it would bag at PCGS. If it dosen't I pay $50 + grading fees.

    Cameron Kiefer


  • << <i>OK, so if I send it in for a crossover, is it better to leave it in its current slab or to crack it out and send it raw. I'm balancing biasing the graders ro downgrade it based on the old VG8 assessment vs. the risk it gets BB'd. What's your recommendations? >>



    I've tried a buffalo with a similar planchet flaw at pcgs twice this year, but it BB'd both times. I definitely would NOT recommend cracking it out. Send it in as a crossover only.

    -DCB
    Successful BST purchases from: WaterSport, commoncents123, Hyperion, mozeppa, Mar327, coinlieutenant, Placid, MFH, fishteeth, FilthyBroke, SilverEagles92, illini420, barberman55, pcgs69 (2x) & 123cents

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  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would PCGS slab this coin as a mint error for the lamination?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭
    Very minor lamination, would grade at PCGS no problem. I like it as a VG10.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>




    A gouge doesnt have such sharp, defined edges. This is definately a planchet flaw, and it would not stop PCGS from grading it.
  • As much as I don't see any reason to BB it... I'd still not crack it... just too risky.

    Send as a crossover. As much as I think they hate upgrading crosses, this should be a straightforward one, and old ANAC's slabs were often a tad conservative.
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BB at PCGS. >>



    No way. A minor lamination like that would rarely ever result in a body bag.

    The coin was undergraded as a VG >>



    Wanna bet it bags at PCGS? It is not a minor lamination it is a gouge. I've had lesser examples bag. Just my experience. >>



    I'll wager any sum of money that it's a minor lamination and that it would grade. >>



    $50 it would bag at PCGS. If it dosen't I pay $50 + grading fees.

    Cameron Kiefer >>



    If we can locate the coin I'll take you up on that bet. image

  • DoctorPaperDoctorPaper Posts: 616 ✭✭✭
    Now you've got me worried. Cameron Kiefer is an ex-grader, right? And he's giving a thumbs-down.
    Wisconsin nationals: gotta love 'em....
  • yellowjacketyellowjacket Posts: 1,809
    What's the risk in cracking this coin out? You could get better than VG money as a raw coin IMHO. I'd submit to PCGS in a moment. And stay away from "error lamination" designation. Laminations are a liability when it comes to nickels, unless they are very dramatic.

    While many are focusing on the horn, which is usually weak on this issue anyway, take a look at how strong the date is. That's where the money is for these overdates.

    I like it and would say F-12 or 15. Nice details and who cares about a minor reverse lamination on an overdate. It's a non-issue. And if PCGS doesn't like it, send it across the street. Remember: I bought an ANACS 20 overdate, cracked it out, came back a PCGS 15, cracked it, came back an NGC 30, crossed it into a PCGS 30 holder.


    Go for it. All you have to lose is money. image

    Garrow

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