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you know, people whine about all the metals threads, but what do the REAL collectors think
Hyperion
Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭
is behind the interest of the "general public" in things COIN related??
Id bet alot of the newbies in baltimore have gotten involved/are visiting just because of the surging metals prices, whether they're looking to buy bullion or get a valuation of some gold coin grandmom and grandpop had, or are maybe just curious about what goes on in those shabby, cigarette stinky, 1950s styled rooms old school dealers operate out of?
Id bet alot of the newbies in baltimore have gotten involved/are visiting just because of the surging metals prices, whether they're looking to buy bullion or get a valuation of some gold coin grandmom and grandpop had, or are maybe just curious about what goes on in those shabby, cigarette stinky, 1950s styled rooms old school dealers operate out of?
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K
I get a lot of PM price driven traffic buying on ebay and otherwise. I try to talk to as many of them as I can. Often they say they collected a few pennies as a kid and the excitement about metals brought them back to it. --Jerry
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64?
<< <i>Yes, of course there is a direct relationship. There is a very small minority who complain about he metals threads and it if wasn't metals it would be something else.
I get a lot of PM price driven traffic buying on ebay and otherwise. I try to talk to as many of them as I can. Often they say they collected a few pennies as a kid and the excitement about metals brought them back to it. --Jerry >>
Hey Jerry....since when did 37.5% become "a very small minority"?
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=639967&highlight_key=y&keyword1=poll
<< <i>
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64? >>
for someone who didn't give a rats ass about coins (about 99.999% of the human population, cold truth be known), it drove up the inherent value 15%
% wise to the vast minority of people who price things subtley and would pay a premium for a tiny piece of silver because of it's date and rarity, not so much.
The value of your coin increased because of the drive up in interest in metals since these metals are part of the MARKET.
The Hobby enjoys the run up in PMs because in actuality, those who buy bullion often times realize that a COIN will increase even more in value than the metals market dictates. It's not because of the metal at this juncture. It's because of the interest taken in coins after an investor crosses the threshold and falls in love with coins.
To address your second question.... We are a minority. There are a lot more Hot Wheel, Beanie Baby, Sports memorabilia and Automobile collectors that outweigh us.
PMs drive up the value of EVERYTHING.
And finally, I find your questions to be full of freshness. Some people may take your questions and look at you as provoking a fight. I see it as opening dialogue.
Joe
P.S. I may be right, or I could be wrong, but I'm willing to type and talk. Knowledge comes from being inquisitive and finding the truth. Wisdom comes from the experiences of being right and wrong.
That is just a little bit of what I think (even though I spoke directly to your questions, I hope it also addresses the OP's question)
Oh, and I wish more people would post here ! The really smart ones just shut up and collect coins
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64? >>
for someone who didn't give a rats ass about coins (about 99.999% of the human population, cold truth be known), it drove up the inherent value 15%
% wise to the vast minority of people who price things subtley and would pay a premium for a tiny piece of silver because of it's date and rarity, not so much. >>
Thats a terrific point, but since 99.999% of the members of THIS forum do give a rat's ass about coins, discussions on metal prices should probably be confined to a forum that caters to PM's, such as Kitco's forum. I doubt that discussing a rare die marraige of a half dime on their forum would be somehow considered related to bullion. What do you think?
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64? >>
for someone who didn't give a rats ass about coins (about 99.999% of the human population, cold truth be known), it drove up the inherent value 15%
% wise to the vast minority of people who price things subtley and would pay a premium for a tiny piece of silver because of it's date and rarity, not so much. >>
Thats a terrific point, but since 99.999% of the members of THIS forum do give a rat's ass about coins, discussions on metal prices should probably be confined to a forum that caters to PM's, such as Kitco's forum. I doubt that discussing a rare die marraige of a half dime on their forum would be somehow considered related to bullion. What do you think? >>
so you are looking for a fight, mr. troll?
this is a thread to discuss the dynamic between metals and specific coin valuations. just cause it doesn't suit your opinion of what you'd like to read, feel free to stop reading at any particular time.
<< <i>Phil, first of all, the reason your MS64 is affected by the PM run has a few sides I could address.
The value of your coin increased because of the drive up in interest in metals since these metals are part of the MARKET.
The Hobby enjoys the run up in PMs because in actuality, those who buy bullion often times realize that a COIN will increase even more in value than the metals market dictates. It's not because of the metal at this juncture. It's because of the interest taken in coins after an investor crosses the threshold and falls in love with coins.
To address your second question.... We are a minority. There are a lot more Hot Wheel, Beanie Baby, Sports memorabilia and Automobile collectors that outweigh us.
PMs drive up the value of EVERYTHING.
And finally, I find your questions to be full of freshness. Some people may take your questions and look at you as provoking a fight. I see it as opening dialogue.
Joe
P.S. I may be right, or I could be wrong, but I'm willing to type and talk. Knowledge comes from being inquisitive and finding the truth. Wisdom comes from the experiences of being right and wrong.
That is just a little bit of what I think (even though I spoke directly to your questions, I hope it also addresses the OP's question)
Oh, and I wish more people would post here ! The really smart ones just shut up and collect coins
Joe, your point is taken. However, PM's are just a tiny part of what drives values of coins. Domestic and world politics also play a part, as does the economy as a whole. Should we be starting threads discussing those issues as well? Terrorism will crash the rare coin market faster than we can blink, yet I wouldnt care to see page 1 of this COIN forum filled with threads on speculation of the current doings of the Hamas group, nor would you. The point is that a line needs to be drawn. A thread about something interesting regarding PM's and coins, IM ALL FOR THAT. Another thread about how silver is up 25 cents in the past 2 hours? Not needed, nor wanted here.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64? >>
for someone who didn't give a rats ass about coins (about 99.999% of the human population, cold truth be known), it drove up the inherent value 15%
% wise to the vast minority of people who price things subtley and would pay a premium for a tiny piece of silver because of it's date and rarity, not so much. >>
Thats a terrific point, but since 99.999% of the members of THIS forum do give a rat's ass about coins, discussions on metal prices should probably be confined to a forum that caters to PM's, such as Kitco's forum. I doubt that discussing a rare die marraige of a half dime on their forum would be somehow considered related to bullion. What do you think? >>
so you are looking for a fight, mr. troll?
this is a thread to discuss the dynamic between metals and specific coin valuations. just cause it doesn't suit your opinion of what you'd like to read, feel free to stop reading at any particular time. >>
You call me a name, then ask if IM looking for a fight?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PM prices and coin prices for most collectors are a direct relationship and of interest. I would bet there is hardly a collector on these boards who has not followed the PM price run up over the last few months.
K >>
Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64? >>
for someone who didn't give a rats ass about coins (about 99.999% of the human population, cold truth be known), it drove up the inherent value 15%
% wise to the vast minority of people who price things subtley and would pay a premium for a tiny piece of silver because of it's date and rarity, not so much. >>
Thats a terrific point, but since 99.999% of the members of THIS forum do give a rat's ass about coins, discussions on metal prices should probably be confined to a forum that caters to PM's, such as Kitco's forum. I doubt that discussing a rare die marraige of a half dime on their forum would be somehow considered related to bullion. What do you think? >>
so you are looking for a fight, mr. troll?
this is a thread to discuss the dynamic between metals and specific coin valuations. just cause it doesn't suit your opinion of what you'd like to read, feel free to stop reading at any particular time. >>
You call me a name, then ask if IM looking for a fight?
junk silver is NOT bullion, tho it can be priced like it, and can be melted INTO it.
I conceed your coin didn't appreciate.
you could sell your 1887 silver dime for melt, and the price has increased. conceed me that.
one mans junk silver is another mans space holder in a roosie/washie album, correct?
just cause it's common doesn't mean SOMEONE could collect it. either that or youre too much of an elitist to conceed some YN could be introduced into the hobby with a starter collection like that.
Believe it or not......YES, the value of your dime in up, probably by a significant amount. The same thing that is driving gold and silver up is indeed driving up the prices of quality US type coins, esp. gold and silver type. While you may not see a change on your weekly or monthly greysheet, it's happening. Check back in a year when metals are up a lot more and see what happened to the price of your 1887 dime. The money that was sloshing around for years in stocks, then real estate, then hedge funds, and now commodities, has made its way to gold/silver (and coins).
roadrunner
Junk silver coins may be a great way to get YNs into the hobby, in fact, I have given away over $10 face to the neighborhood kids just last year to try to get them interested in our hobby. But, those pieces will always be tied into silver spot price, and carry a zero numismatic premium. Therefore, I treat them as strictly bullion. Im not an elitest at all, actually my stuff is very modest compared to alot of members here.
<< <i>Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64?
Believe it or not......YES! The same thing that is driving gold and silver up is indeed driving up the prices of quality US type coins, esp. gold and silver type. While you may not see a change on your weekly or monthly greysheet, it's happening. Check back in a year when metals are up a lot more and see what happened to the price of your 1887 dime. The money that was sloshing around for years in stocks, then real estate, then hedge funds, and now commodities, has made its way to gold/silver (and coins).
roadrunner >>
So just to be clear, you are saying that gold/silver bullion is really just a gateway into numismatics for some people? If this is indeed what you are implying, thats an interesting and very debateable theory. Im not sure exactly how I feel about that at the moment, but I will ponder it for awhile.
<< <i>another thread down the tubes....the negatives hijack threads in the name of the greater good...nice. >>
Only if we digress, Jerry. Name calling and suggesting that someone is a troll because they don't see the same as you or the OP doesn't make it negative. Phil makes some great points.
The OP's question is a great question. His response to gecko does not have to implicate the respondent to being a troll...
I'm the one with the crappy widgets that are only worth BULLION price. At least he's got the kind of coins that so many cronies around here kiss butt over !
so you are looking for a fight, mr. troll?
this is a thread to discuss the dynamic between metals and specific coin valuations. just cause it doesn't suit your opinion of what you'd like to read, feel free to stop reading at any particular time. >>
I agree wit you 100% you have the thread lurkers that wait and comment on a thread they think is not coin related and try to be some big shot amongst the crowd here. Plain in simple you Knucklebucks that think Metal threads and coins don't intertwine,
IF YOU DON'T HAVE METALS YOU DON'T HAVE COINS!
How do you think the coins you look at in your collection each and every day were made of? Doppy Dough. Seems like more and more people don't have anything worth while to offer just nonsense remarks.
I just don't get it. I just can't understand why some individuals have such a problem with what is or is not posted on this forum.
If one does not like a topic that is posted.... then why in the world even open the topic, let alone jump in and start complaining because it does not meet their own individual idea of what should or should not be posted??? Skip the line.... skip the posting!!! Are you the moderator or the owner of this forum??? If you don't like what's on one channel, change channels!! Why the overwhelming compulsion to jump in and harass others who DO enjoy the posts???
If postings of precious metals was that much off the intent or topic of the forum.... the moderators would have pulled them or forbid them long ago, just like the open forum.
I guess I'm a little sick
I must admit that we 'gold bugs' do overdo it at times (especially when there is rapid movement in prices) and I do respect the fact that we should limit our posts to one or two of the Precious Metals posts such as this one: (afterall, this is a Coin Forum)
GOLD AND SILVER WORLD NEWS, ECONOMIC PREDICTIONS
I'm doing my part to post PM discussions solely into the above stated post only.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>so you are looking for a fight, mr. troll?
this is a thread to discuss the dynamic between metals and specific coin valuations. just cause it doesn't suit your opinion of what you'd like to read, feel free to stop reading at any particular time. >>
I agree wit you 100% you have the thread lurkers that wait and comment on a thread they think is not coin related and try to be some big shot amongst the crowd here. Plain in simple you Knucklebucks that think Metal threads and coins don't intertwine,
IF YOU DON'T HAVE METALS YOU DON'T HAVE COINS!
How do you think the coins you look at in your collection each and every day were made of? Doppy Dough you moron. Seems like more and more people don't have anything worth while to offer just nonsense remarks.
Hey Yaha. Do you think the owner of an 1879 $4 coiled hair stella in PR65 really gives a chit if gold is $400 an ounce or $4000? It does nothing for his coin in the same way that $12 silver or $30 silver does nothing for the vast majority of my pieces.
<< <i>geez.....
I just don't get it. I just can't understand why some individuals have such a problem with what is or is not posted on this forum.
If one does not like a topic that is posted.... then why in the world even open the topic, let alone jump in and start complaining because it does not meet their own individual idea of what should or should not be posted??? Skip the line.... skip the posting!!! Are you the moderator or the owner of this forum??? If you don't like what's on one channel, change channels!! Why the overwhelming compulsion to jump in and harass others who DO enjoy the posts???
If postings of precious metals was that much off the intent or topic of the forum.... the moderators would have pulled them or forbid them long ago, just like the open forum. >>
I have ZERO interest in Jeff nicks, Frankies, Washies, "Golden" dollars, or SHQs. Yet you would NEVER see me complain about the threads concerning them because they are coins, and this is a coin forum. I do exactly what you suggest, I skip past them. But at what point do you draw the line? As I said before, this country's foreign policy can be linked to coin values, yet most members would frown upon having 3-4 threads a day discussing our involvement in Iraq, or what we should do about North Korea. The same can be said about a 4% increase of a PM on a given day. Is it coin related? Is it really needed? Think about it.
I'd like to say the same thing about all them hairlined, toned and crappy classics you have on the BST that started a mild uproar...
but I can't.
<< <i>ZERO interest in Jeff nicks, Frankies, Washies, "Golden" dollars, or SHQs. Yet you would NEVER see me complain about the threads concerning them because they are coins
I'd like to say the same thing about all them hairlined, toned and crappy classics you have on the BST that started a mild uproar...
but I can't. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Silver is up $3 in the past 30 days. How did that increase affect the value of my 1887 seated dime in MS64?
Believe it or not......YES! The same thing that is driving gold and silver up is indeed driving up the prices of quality US type coins, esp. gold and silver type. While you may not see a change on your weekly or monthly greysheet, it's happening. Check back in a year when metals are up a lot more and see what happened to the price of your 1887 dime. The money that was sloshing around for years in stocks, then real estate, then hedge funds, and now commodities, has made its way to gold/silver (and coins).
roadrunner >>
So just to be clear, you are saying that gold/silver bullion is really just a gateway into numismatics for some people? If this is indeed what you are implying, thats an interesting and very debateable theory. Im not sure exactly how I feel about that at the moment, but I will ponder it for awhile. >>
I agree and also see numismatics as the gateway to bullion which has happened in my case.
There are a lot of smart people (and some not so smart ones) on these threads . I have watched the bullion threads for years and even though I found them annoying at first I started buying into the hype about 5 years ago and have been smiling ( most of the time) ever since. Bullion as an offshoot of my hobby has turned into a very successful investment.
<< <i>I would skip the stupid posts if they did not make me laugh so much...
Oh, another brother, I see
You get the Stir Stick™ award.
Choose your weapon. They're SILVER
Oh, and Phil... Thank you !
<< <i>I have ZERO interest in Jeff nicks, Frankies, Washies, "Golden" dollars, or SHQs. Yet you would NEVER see me complain about the threads concerning them because they are coins, and this is a coin forum. >>
Other posters have complained about these coins in the past, with the suggestion of splitting the US Coin Forum into Classic and Modern forums.
two coin spoon
one coin spoon
Are there any spoons like this with US coins?
What would your friends think if you had them over for dinner and you served them with coin silverware?
I would guess that most people here are up to date on PM prices so I don't see the need for more than a few threads about the run up in prices.
I have only been here for a short while and was wondering, have there been this many threads about PM when it's going down or stagnant?
Ray
<< <i>To many threads about PM prices IMHO.
I would guess that most people here are up to date on PM prices so I don't see the need for more than a few threads about the run up in prices.
I have only been here for a short while and was wondering, have there been this many threads about PM when it's going down or stagnant?
Ray >>
Of course not. The only "chest thumping" that happens in PM threads is when they are up. Now here are a few of those "dogs" from the group I attempted to sell that twosides refered to, just to get this thread a little more coin related.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>When PM's go way up, many dealers plow their PM profits into rare coins which have a direct effect on the prices of these rare coins that collectors have to pay. So yes---PM's effect the coin market. >>
It's obvious that some here do not remember or were not around during the run-up of PM prices of '79/'80.
During that time, the gray sheet was loaded with plus signs week after week.
signed,
a long-time collector who is also long in silver, gold, and platinum.
<< <i>When PM's go way up, many dealers plow their PM profits into rare coins which have a direct effect on the prices of these rare coins that collectors have to pay. So yes---PM's effect the coin market. >>
So it's dealer driven?
That's great news for the lower end "pure" coin collector.
Ray
Gecko109.. you are having a bad week... Take a break and have a
He sure does give a chit. Believe me, the number of people looking at $4 Stellas as gold increases 10X is very significant. You can bet that the tripling in the price of gold has helped advance the price of Stellas in a big way. Gold and rare coins can be moving in different directions short term and not violate the basic trends. It's no different that different sectors of the stock market moving one month and not the next. In the current environment, I'd bet that the price of Stellas would have barely budged if gold was still at $300/oz. It's no different than what $30 silver will do the price of a MS64 seated dime (ie: a lot)
roadrunner
<< <i>Its called " turn the page, turn it off, or wait.. start a coin thread...".. Man if you dont like it vote for Obama.. just kidding.. boy its very easy NOT to open or read a thread. The fact that there are many PM threads and people open and reply to them.. SAYS to me that there are ENOUGH people here that want them....
Gecko109.. you are having a bad week... Take a break and have a
And a reply is exactly what you got.
The OP of this thread was looking for opinions from collectors about all the PM threads and he got them.
You are the one that needs a drink or two......or three.
Ray
<< <i>Hey Yaha. Do you think the owner of an 1879 $4 coiled hair stella in PR65 really gives a chit if gold is $400 an ounce or $4000? It does nothing for his coin in the same way that $12 silver or $30 silver does nothing for the vast majority of my pieces.
He sure does give a chit. Believe me, the number of people looking at $4 Stellas as gold increases 10X is very significant. You can bet that the tripling in the price of gold has helped advance the price of Stellas in a big way. Gold and rare coins can be moving in different directions short term and not violate the basic trends. It's no different that different sectors of the stock market moving one month and not the next. In the current environment, I'd bet that the price of Stellas would have barely budged if gold was still at $300/oz. It's no different than what $30 silver will do the price of a MS64 seated dime (ie: a lot)
roadrunner >>
OK, now that i'm in deep I need to know......10X gold prices?
When was the last time gold was $200 or even $300?
How many more collectors will consider buying Stellas to jump on the gold band wagon?
PM prices will not effect "rare" coins in a major way, if it did I would just stick to copper and nickel issues.
I think your timeline is a little out of wack roadrunner.
Ray
<< <i>ooo ooo ooo! I want the middle one....
1) Paper pm's... since its easy to move online
2) Physical pm's... high premiums first... low premiums second (why?... item 1)
3) Mint issued modern pm's (walking thru the gateway)
4) Classics (hallelujah time)
You can help us learn #3 and #4 here... as well as help us in the pm forum with #1 and #2.
Its your choice... you can help the industry (which needs some transparency), or you can kill the golden goose.
I've learned more and appreciate the posts that have slapped me around a little... I usually got the message. One in particular I asked for help since I was entering the world of ebay... got some bumps and bruises. What happened... I listened, and over the next couple of months, was able to do what I 'needed'to do and 'won' almost a 100 auctions... maybe some of them were yours...
But in order to get to #4... I had to digest what it means to dip, tool, whiz, etc.... and the most importantly understand the specific coin I was interested in and slowly learn how to grade.
If there is anything that makes me feel better during this six year process was feeling like I'm starting to understand how to grade for myself (as dangerous as that could be).
That being said... I have thicker skin than most.
In a couple of weeks, my new life begins, and I won't have the time to watch the antics here... maybe thats good for both of us.
I appreciate the good and the bad that goes on here, but for goodness sake... don't scare the newbees away... it helps nobody.
I clearly NOW KNOW who I would like to do business with in these forums... I wish some here would broaden their inventory, since it doesn't match my interests... but you can't have everything.
So... this is the thread that broke the camels back... it's been interesting to say the least. To those that I have offended; I truely apologize... there are times when I don't display enough empathy; I'll learn from that.
To those that have sent me correspondence... I'll get back to you, as soon as I'm able.
God Bless To You All...
Ed
dealers sell more and restore their cash
positions that can then be spent on rare
coins. Yes PM values will effect rare coins, but
indirectly, as it restores financial liquidity.
Camelot