What is considered "THE" Manny Ramirez' rookie? Mike Piazza, too?

EchoCanyon

Thanks

Rogermnj

1992 Bowman for Ramirez
1992 fleer update for Piazza

Allen

Beat me to it. I need to pick up one of each.

MajorDanby

I like Piazza's bowman issue rather than his fleer update issue.

Allen

yeah but his fleer update is hands down "THE" rookie.

lostdart58

<< <i>yeah but his fleer update is hands down "THE" rookie. >>



I own three Piazza fleet update rookies but have never actually seen them. They are still in the sealed box.

MCMLVTopps

The All-time Red Sox collection shows the Ramirez rookie card as his 1992 Bowman Gold Foil.
Still not too hard to get in PSA 10, less than $50.00. It's a nice card, shows Manny in street clothes and a short hair cut.

CDsNuts

Strangely enough it's 1997 Topps Laser for both.

Allen

The gold foil is a subset card and is worth a lot less than his base rookie card.

swartz1

<< <i>yeah but his fleer update is hands down "THE" rookie. >>




Why is this?

shagrotn77

As previously mentioned, it's 1992 Bowman (non foil) and 1992 Fleer Update. There is no question that either card is THE key rookie card. None.

mrbecker712

I've got a Manny minor league card. Anyone interested?

Allen

<< <i>Why is this? >>



The Fleer Update is more limited and released in factory set form only. The Bowman is much easier to find.

hofautos

I think this is the toughest to find in Mint and is also nomar's most sought after rookie.
Also his upperdeck with Gold Holofoil is hard to find.

not the winners version.

rube26105

i like opc 92,i think lee sent it to me,somebody did,was that u nutz

hofautos

<< <i>I've got a Manny minor league card. Anyone interested? >>


which one?

if either of these, i am interested

hofautos

Here is also a nice piazza Minor Rookie

rpcoletrane

hofautos, what card are you referring to when you say upperdeck with Gold Holofoil? I think I may have that one.....

CDsNuts

Yeah, I had a bunch of 92 OPC at one point. Definitely the scarcest Ramirez RC.

donrus

what about this upper deck???

NickM

There is an argument as to whether an update set rookie is ever a true rookie if the player has had a card come out in other companies' regular sets the same year. E.g., is the '89 Topps Traded Griffey a true rookie, considering that several other companies put him in their base sets? Is the '87 Fleer Update G. Maddux a true rookie, considering that Donruss put him in their base set?

I take the position that it's not, which makes the Bowman Piazza his best rookie.

Nick

hofautos

<< <i>hofautos, what card are you referring to when you say upperdeck with Gold Holofoil? I think I may have that one..... >>



The hologram on the back...most are silver...they have some with a gold hologram.

Guru

The Bowman Foils are really not that hard to find in 10's. And as far as the Topps Draft pick goes, I've got like 5 or 6 of those raw. I pulled all of them from the same box.

hofautos

I think Manny's most expensive ungraded is the 92 bowman, but most expensive graded gem is the 1992 topps gold....
Raw, either of his autographed minors sell for more than any of his major league cards.

hofautos

<< <i>The Bowman Foils are really not that hard to find in 10's. And as far as the Topps Draft pick goes, I've got like 5 or 6 of those raw. I pulled all of them from the same box. >>



I know the BGS 9.5 of Manny's Topps Gold sells for more than any other Manny. (not the winner version). It used to sell for about $250, but lately been selling for about $100. (at least last time i checked)

rpcoletrane

Yep, I've got that one....the 92 UD Gold Hologram...didn't know it was even rare! What is it worth?

hofautos

Yea, it really is a shame that many of today's and yesterday's players from the 80s and 90s didn't have any rare or exciting rookies. For many of those cards, i collected the tiffanys (most sp to 5000), and also collected psa/dna rookies of those players. I will also collect a rookie reprint auto where i can find one as well.

This is what i got for manny along those lines (besides the topps gold bgs 9.5 and ud gold holo psa 9). Wish I could find something decent for piazza....his minor league (pic posted earlier) is the only thing decent i have.

hofautos

<< <i>Yep, I've got that one....the 92 UD Gold Hologram...didn't know it was even rare! What is it worth? >>



not much but hard to find...if someone would bother looking

Guru

Yea, too bad he ever stepped foot in The Jake.

Estil

Gold holograms were used in all 1992 Upper Deck factory sets while in 1993 Upper Deck inserted a super secret gold hologram factory set in each 20 factory set case (unmarked, so you had to bust open the seal to find out which one). I sure wouldn't mind getting those someday.

hofautos

<< <i>Gold holograms were used in all 1992 Upper Deck factory sets while in 1993 Upper Deck inserted a super secret gold hologram factory set in each 20 factory set case (unmarked, so you had to bust open the seal to find out which one). I sure wouldn't mind getting those someday. >>



really? more common than the regular 92 ud? I know book is more, although still just a few bucks.

For Piazza, what about the Donruss Phenoms...i think that is his most difficult, although his bowman and fleer books more for some odd reason?

shagrotn77

<< <i>There is an argument as to whether an update set rookie is ever a true rookie if the player has had a card come out in other companies' regular sets the same year. >>



That is quite honestly a silly argument that doesn't hold water. Update sets are just as readily available as regular issues. If Clemens or Puckett had a regular issue card in '84, would we just disregard '84 Fleer Update despite the fact that they're clearly more valuable? If we're talking Topps Gold, Topps Tiffany, any of that stuff, yeah, not eligible for key mainstream rookies. But update sets clearly are.

Estil

<< <i>

<< <i>Gold holograms were used in all 1992 Upper Deck factory sets while in 1993 Upper Deck inserted a super secret gold hologram factory set in each 20 factory set case (unmarked, so you had to bust open the seal to find out which one). I sure wouldn't mind getting those someday. >>



really? more common than the regular 92 ud? I know book is more, although still just a few bucks.
>>



No no no no no, like I said, the gold holograms were ONLY for the factory sets; the regular foil/jumbo pack cards have the standard issue silver holograms. So gold holograms are somewhat harder to come by, but obiously not nearly as much as the 1993 gold holograms.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Heres Piazza on a 1991 card when he played for my town.

NickM

<< <i><< There is an argument as to whether an update set rookie is ever a true rookie if the player has had a card come out in other companies' regular sets the same year. >>



That is quite honestly a silly argument that doesn't hold water. Update sets are just as readily available as regular issues. If Clemens or Puckett had a regular issue card in '84, would we just disregard '84 Fleer Update despite the fact that they're clearly more valuable? If we're talking Topps Gold, Topps Tiffany, any of that stuff, yeah, not eligible for key mainstream rookies. But update sets clearly are. >>



Clearly is a substitute for analysis. Topps Tiffany was distributed only in complete set form, just as '84 Fleer Update Clemens and Puckett were.

Why should a card distributed in this fashion - which is almost guaranteed to have a higher overall average grade than one distributed in packs, and which usually comes out long after the regular sets do, be a true rookie alongside the card in packs that made up part of a base set?

The Maddux presents the most interesting case - both the Fleer Update and Fleer Update Glossy were issued at the same time and in the same fashion. Why should one be a true rookie and not the other?

For years, Beckett magazine considered cards from update sets to be XRCs rather than true RCs even when there were no base set cards that year of that player. A substantial portion of collectors agreed, and disliked the change Beckett made. Were they all silly?

IMO update sets deserve to be the "stepchildren" of the hobby.

Nick

mrbecker712

How about this Manny?

CDsNuts

The concept of a "true rookie card" is about as relevant as Beckett's pricing. One guy thinks it's Bowman, one guy thinks it's Fleer Update. One guy thinks Tiffany's count, one guy doesn't. The truth is it's irrelevant because there is no such thing as a "True Rookie" as long as there is more than one card of a guy made in any given year. The market decides what the most sought after card is by virtue of supply and demand. Whether you choose to agree with the market is up to you.