Bonds, Aaron, HOF?

Guru

Okay, seeing that Bonds has now been indicted, do you think that if he is found guilty that they will strip him of his homerun title and it will go back to Aaron? Do you think he'll ever get in the HOF? And now what will happen to the world famous * ball? Your thoughts?

BunchOBull

The ball will remain a piece of baseball history...the game's darker history, and yet history. I think it will stay in the Hall. As for striping the title...I think they should and it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

roastedcat

I think he'll get into the hall eventually, times are changing and this is the age of steriods and muscle enhancement use, Back in the golden days, cheating was a way to immorality, but times are changing, I wouldn't be surprised if they legalized drug use for sports in the future.

BunchOBull

<< <i>I think he'll get into the hall eventually, times are changing and this is the age of steriods and muscle enhancement use, Back in the golden days, cheating was a way to immorality, but times are changing, I wouldn't be surprised if they legalized drug use for sports in the future. >>



I don't think the Feds would stand for it. They'd squash the MLB in their tracks if the powers that be even tried.

larryallen73

They may legalize drug use but he is still a criminal. His indictment is not if he used steroids. That is IRRELEVANT. He LIED to the grand jury. That's a felony.

Guru

Yea, I agree. It's like trying to legalize pot. People are still going to use drugs regardless. We live in a selfish culture. If someone wants something bad enough they'll do whatever it takes to get it. Even if it means breaking the law.
Sad thing is that if the MLB had any rules that stated if you use drugs you're out for life, I honestly believe we wouldn't have baseball around very much. I think only a few people have not done these things.

Guru

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" - Liars club, Co-Founder and President William Jefferson Clinton

rube26105

poor barry-nice sweet innocent mr personality-i heard he was out kissin babies and helping little old ladies across the street down at haight-ashbury when this came down yesterday

Guru

LOL...next thing you know he's going to form a clan of women that do everything he tells them to do, carve a swastka on his forehead, proclaim to be the anti-christ, and go kill some movie star.

roastedcat

True, true!!! I think this whole thing is way out of porportion, if they are getting him now because he lied, why couldn't they have got him 4 years ago. I think the case will blow over, the FED's are just trying to stop him from hitting anymore HR's. So the next guy can break his record.

Enough talk about Bonds, lets go to OJ. Do you think he's going to be locked up for the rest of his life???

TomGshotput

Perjury makes his testimony illegitimate, not his 762 homeruns

cwazzy

As much as I dislike Bary I don't think they will (or should) strip him of his title or keep him out of the HOF if he is found guilty. Baseball made the mistake of turning a blind eye to drug use and performance enhancing drugs. Up until recently he wasn't in violation of any rules. Laws maybe, but not the rules of baseball. It would be like lowering the speed limit from 70 to 60 on Wednesday and then sending me a speeding ticket for going 68 on Tuesday.

Chris

Guru

Point being he lied. Now he's caught. If there's enough evidence to support that he was juicing while trying to break this record then he's clearly violating MLB rules which means he should be stripped of that title. The should move the number of hits back to before he started juicing. I think he should not get credit for anything in my opinion. Scum bag (Bonds that is).

*Move the hits back to where he was right before it was a violation to use these drugs.

TomGshotput

Actually MLB did not prohibit drugs when Bonds starting using them and no strong evidence that he continued to use them after they were banned. Thus there is no cheating issue, only the criminal one. Criminals have been well represented in the Hall-of-Fame and record book for a long time with

Guru

Okay...I'll give you that. I agree the issue here is that he committed perjury. If they find that he did not juice when the MLB did not have any rules about it, then I would suppose he would be in the clear. Even though it's not right, I guess he still should hold the title. Sucks though.

rube26105

let the media circus of him and oj begin,hopefully theyll shut up about both of em by next chrismas

cwazzy

<< <i>he would be in the clear. >>



Ironic choice of words, don't ya think?

Chris

Guru

?

cwazzy

Wasn't "the clear" the steroid that he supposedly took? Never mind. This is why I gave up commedy.

Chris

fandango

I feel vindicated today!

i have been saying for years that bonds is a cheater and needs to be taken down!

Thank you GW BUSH! you didnt want the game tainted on your watch!

those who have been saying "bonds has never been found guilty of anything, there is no proof"....EAT YOUR WORDS

BunchOBull

Steroid use has NEVER been legal in baseball. The fact of the matter is, he was using the substances illegally in terms of the Federal law...then he lied about using it...not because he feared the Government, but because he feared how his use would affect his status in the game of baseball. The MLB falls under the laws of the land, like any other institution or person...they supercede if you will. Baseball never had to declare drug use illegal because it already was in terms of the ideals of the Federal Government. This "loophole" everyone keeps speaking of isn't a loophole at all. It was always illegal, always.

fandango

<< <i>Steroid use has NEVER been legal in baseball. The fact of the matter is, he was using the substances illegally in terms of the Federal law...then he lied about using it...not because he feared the Government, but because he feared how his use would affect his status in the game of baseball. The MLB falls under the laws of the land, like any other institution or person...they supercede if you will. Baseball never had to declare drug use illegal because it already was in terms of the ideals of the Federal Government. This "loophole" everyone keeps speaking of isn't a loophole at all. It was always illegal, always. >>



excellent point...just cause it wasnt written "in the baseball books" doesnt make it legal

people who been supporting bonds have to be dilussional....either that or they are the same people who cheered when OJ was found innocent of slaying his wife....

TomGshotput

There is a difference between being a criminal and being a cheater

Allen Iverson smoked week but we don't call him a cheater and question if his records are legitimate

Bill Belichick films the other teams plays but we don't indict him on felony charges

Guru

They should indict Bill. Just kidding. Bonds just makes me sick.

BobaFett72

"There is a difference between being a criminal and being a cheater"

Bonds is both a liar and a cheater, and ultimately a criminal.

BunchOBull

<< <i>Bonds is both a liar and a cheater, and ultimately a criminal. >>



That's the summation of it all...right there.

Counselor

I believe that steroids were made illegal under the rules of baseball during the tenure of Commisioner Vincent or Giamatti but there was no agreement in place with the union for testing or discipline until 2002 or so. Can someone else verify this?


Bob

BunchOBull

I think you're correct Bob, but I can't remember specifically.

digicat

Bonds will probably plea bargan, and get let off with a slap on the wrist... and be asked to sign a few autographs for the judge. (e.g. Chris Webber)

digicat

<< <i>Okay, seeing that Bonds has now been indicted, do you think that if he is found guilty that they will strip him of his homerun title and it will go back to Aaron? >>



No. They didn't erase the 1919 World Series from the books, nor did they take away Jose Canseco's 1988 AL MVP award, or Ken Caminiti's 1996 NL MVP award, even though both admitted to using illegal steroids during those seasons.

SportsItUpCards

How come Jesse Jackson and Al Sharp-tongue haven't come to his side yet?

SportsItUpCards

INDICTED

Guru

The days not over.

mmync

I haven't really followed this case, and I am not defending him by any means. Just trying to learn enough so I know what to do with my Bonds cards. With that being said, here is my question. What all do they have to prove? Even if they have proof that he used steroids and even tested positive for steroids is that enough or do they have to prove that he "Knowingly used steroids"? Even though everyone knows that he knew, can't they argue that he may have tested positive for steroids, but that doesn't prove that he knowingly took them? Just curious.

cravetopps

<<<Steroid use has NEVER been legal in baseball.>>>

Steroids were not controlled in the US until 1990 so they were not illegal and nobody knows how many baseball players before 1990 used them. Nobody. Steroids were used as early as the 1940s. After 1990, they were added to the list of "schedule III controlled substances" and are now available as a prescription only. Oh, and by the way, HGH (which is a bigger problem than steroids, btw), is available by prescription and since the MLB players association does not allow blood tests, it is impossible to detect. MLB banned it in 2005 but nobody has been suspended for using it. Who knows how many players are taking this? Nobody.

MLB instituted it's first steroid policy in 2002. Previous to this, there was no steroid policy. So, if a baseball player obtained steroids legally, through prescription, prior to 2002, they would not have violated any federal laws. MLB never suspended any player until the new, tougher policy was implemented in 2005. I believe under 20 players have actually received suspensions. Those were the careless players who got caught, obviously. None of them were ever prosecuted.

Not that this stuff means anything since if you are a Bond's hater, he is already guilty in your eyes regardless of whether he is convicted.

What's going to be interesting is if Bonds is exonerated, and there is a significant likelihood the feds have already blown this case, what is the fallout going to be for Selig and MLB? They're looking for a nice neat way to "officially" end the steroid era and solve the "asterisk" problem once and for all. The likelihood is that the feds and MLB are going to look like bungling idiots when this is all over. HGH use will still be widespread and nobody will ever know which records going forward are tainted. How's that for closure?

BunchOBull

Add amphetamines and cocaine to the list too...because they were once legal, I guess it's no big deal that players, and people in general, use them today? The point is, when steroids became illegal, they were illegal in baseball too. The MLB and it's players aren't above the law. Bonds chose to wait nearly a decade to use, when his body began to show signs of age, and he couldn't be as competitive. He needed an edge because he couldn't perform at the levels of his MLB youth.

At no time before has a substance like steroids, and subsequently HGH and its counterparts, come to question because never had a true performance enhancing drug been abused wildly in the sport.

Yes, steroids can be prescribed...namely for bronchial and breathing abnormalities, increased healing capacity, and allergies. No, if you have a prescription, they aren't illegal. However, if one is taking something as simple as a spouse's prescription cough medicine or some prescription pain pills issued to them after a surgery two years prior, they are abusing drugs illegally.

If the allegations are correct, proper diagnosis and prescription isn't the case in the story of Barry Bonds. I hope turning 40 is as good to me as it has been to Barry Bonds. I'll be able to win the Mr. Universe competition if Barry Bonds is any example of what I have to look forward to.

As for Bonds being exonerated, I truly hope he is, but only deservingly so. It's what is best for baseball and the value of the all-time home run record.

Bottom9th

Barry deserves everything coming to him. I doubt they can strip him of the HR records. Wouldn't they have to do that for other records that may have been tainted? It will be really interesting to see if he gets in the HOF. I don't see him being a guaranteed first ballot HOF'er any more. Time will tell!


Bob...

stown

<< <i>there is a significant likelihood the feds have already blown this case >>



Is that a hypothetical or are you being serious?

cravetopps

<<<At no time before has a substance like steroids, and subsequently HGH and its counterparts, come to question because never had a true performance enhancing drug been abused wildly in the sport.>>>

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one. Since the 50s, Olympic athletes have been taking anabolic steroids and more recently, HGH. I don't need to go into the details since they are all high profile and documented cases.

cravetopps

<<<Is that a hypothetical or are you being serious?>>>

Stown...dead serious. The feds have a great conviction record, yes. However, of those cases that actually go to trial, the story is a lot different. My money is on Bonds.

SportsItUpCards

INDICTED

Lets see Al Sharp-tongue get him off this!

BunchOBull

<< <i><<<At no time before has a substance like steroids, and subsequently HGH and its counterparts, come to question because never had a true performance enhancing drug been abused wildly in the sport.>>>

Sorry to burst your bubble on this one. Since the 50s, Olympic athletes have been taking anabolic steroids and more recently, HGH. I don't need to go into the details since they are all high profile and documented cases. >>



"the sport" being the key words...there is no evidence that steroids were rampant in the MLB before the '90s.

stown

<< <i><<<Is that a hypothetical or are you being serious?>>>

Stown...dead serious. The feds have a great conviction record, yes. However, of those cases that actually go to trial, the story is a lot different. My money is on Bonds. >>



I've never heard that. Maybe the odds flip at a trial, I honestly don't know.

fandango

<< <i><<<Steroid use has NEVER been legal in baseball.>>>

Steroids were not controlled in the US until 1990 so they were not illegal and nobody knows how many baseball players before 1990 used them. Nobody. Steroids were used as early as the 1940s. After 1990, they were added to the list of "schedule III controlled substances" and are now available as a prescription only. Oh, and by the way, HGH (which is a bigger problem than steroids, btw), is available by prescription and since the MLB players association does not allow blood tests, it is impossible to detect. MLB banned it in 2005 but nobody has been suspended for using it. Who knows how many players are taking this? Nobody.

MLB instituted it's first steroid policy in 2002. Previous to this, there was no steroid policy. So, if a baseball player obtained steroids legally, through prescription, prior to 2002, they would not have violated any federal laws. MLB never suspended any player until the new, tougher policy was implemented in 2005. I believe under 20 players have actually received suspensions. Those were the careless players who got caught, obviously. None of them were ever prosecuted.

Not that this stuff means anything since if you are a Bond's hater, he is already guilty in your eyes regardless of whether he is convicted.

What's going to be interesting is if Bonds is exonerated, and there is a significant likelihood the feds have already blown this case, what is the fallout going to be for Selig and MLB? They're looking for a nice neat way to "officially" end the steroid era and solve the "asterisk" problem once and for all. The likelihood is that the feds and MLB are going to look like bungling idiots when this is all over. HGH use will still be widespread and nobody will ever know which records going forward are tainted. How's that for closure? >>



You sir, are missing the biggest point.....

Nobody is going after Bonds for Using Steroids....His Mistake was getting caught lying to a federal grand jury....he could have been lying about taxes, sleeping with prostitutes, or taking steroids unknowingly...it doesnt matter whatthe subject matter is....what matters is that HE GOT CAUGHT LYING TO THEM AND TRYING TO GET SOMEONE ELSE TO LIE FOR HIM (obstruction charge)..

..its not about steroids anymore, he will go to jail for not telling the truth!

cravetopps

<<<You sir, are missing the biggest point.....

Nobody is going after Bonds for Using Steroids....His Mistake was getting caught lying to a federal grand jury....he could have been lying about taxes, sleeping with prostitutes, or taking steroids unknowingly...it doesnt matter whatthe subject matter is....what matters is that HE GOT CAUGHT LYING TO THEM AND TRYING TO GET SOMEONE ELSE TO LIE FOR HIM (obstruction charge)..

..its not about steroids anymore, he will go to jail for not telling the truth!>>>

Fandango....what point am I missing exactly? I was responding to the point made that steroids were never legal in baseball, which is not true. I never said anything about what the feds were going after Bonds for, only that they will lose. And, by the way, "he got caught lying" sounds a bit presumptious since the trial hasn't even begun yet. You may be right, but I'll put my money on the feds screwing this one up.

1960toppsguy

BUY HANK AARON ROOKIE CARDS REGARDLESS OF THE COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SidePocket

I just read that Bonds' shoe size went from 10 1/2 in 1999 to 13 in 2007.

itzagoner

LEAVE BARRY ALONE!!!!!

grote15

I just read that Bonds' shoe size went from 10 1/2 in 1999 to 13 in 2007.

That is a fact. Bonds is a stain on the game, will get what he deserves. He is a cheater and liar, not counting a jerk, too.

BobaFett72

lol his shoe size went up and his testicle size went from this () to .

TomGshotput

<< <i>The MLB and it's players aren't above the law >>



but MLB is not law-enforcement. Some employers don't drug test their employees and some even hire felons so long as they do the work -- until very recently that is the choice baseball made. Bonds may have cheated the law, but not the sport