Do you agree that two graders must mutually....
DoubleEagle59
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agree on a particular grade before a coin gets slabbed at PCGS?
Come on! I've seen too many coins in my time to believe this.
It's hard enough for ONE grader to be consistent over time, let alone two graders.
I'm just trying to imagine if I owned a grading company and if two graders must agree on the same grade before it gets the final OK this would take an awful amount of time and be very time costly for any grading company. Try this with your coin buddy. Take 50 raw coins. You grade them, then have your buddy grade them. I'd be surprised if your accuracy rate is higher than 50%.
I'll tell you what I think happens at PCGS.
Once an grader has shown that he/she is fully competent and relatively consistent in their grading, they are probably left alone to grade by themselves, and thus, only one grader is required.
The only time two graders is required, is when there is a 'new' grader, then probably for a period of time, they are 'trained' or in this case, their grading IS checked by a second grader, until which time the first grader has 'passed' a period of grading time where they are deemed 'qualified' to be left on their own.
This is the only way I can see 'errors' being made the odd time at PCGS (like the ms65 Peace dollar in an earlier thread which should have only been an ms63. Do you think TWO graders saw this coin as an ms65!!!! No way).
My point is basically this - if two graders must agree on a grade, there would be such a backlog of coins to be regraded that eventually it would be seen as uneconomical for the company to maintain this policy.
Do you agree or not?
Come on! I've seen too many coins in my time to believe this.
It's hard enough for ONE grader to be consistent over time, let alone two graders.
I'm just trying to imagine if I owned a grading company and if two graders must agree on the same grade before it gets the final OK this would take an awful amount of time and be very time costly for any grading company. Try this with your coin buddy. Take 50 raw coins. You grade them, then have your buddy grade them. I'd be surprised if your accuracy rate is higher than 50%.
I'll tell you what I think happens at PCGS.
Once an grader has shown that he/she is fully competent and relatively consistent in their grading, they are probably left alone to grade by themselves, and thus, only one grader is required.
The only time two graders is required, is when there is a 'new' grader, then probably for a period of time, they are 'trained' or in this case, their grading IS checked by a second grader, until which time the first grader has 'passed' a period of grading time where they are deemed 'qualified' to be left on their own.
This is the only way I can see 'errors' being made the odd time at PCGS (like the ms65 Peace dollar in an earlier thread which should have only been an ms63. Do you think TWO graders saw this coin as an ms65!!!! No way).
My point is basically this - if two graders must agree on a grade, there would be such a backlog of coins to be regraded that eventually it would be seen as uneconomical for the company to maintain this policy.
Do you agree or not?
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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Ask any former grader or any dealer who has access to the details of the grading process and they'll tell you the same thing. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth here.
It is also irresponsible to make assumptions about subjects in this business that you are personally unfamiliar with.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I agree with the op of his assessment of what goes on in the grading room. I will even go one step further,the new guy that is learning started in the mail room and after working with the graders for 3 months is allowed to grade on his own after 3 months, and if I am wrong about this occurring I am sure has heck right about it occurring at NGC. >>
you obviously have no grasp on the reality of what it takes to be a grader in the 'Big 2', so you may want to ask around before assuming the 'mail room' guy is promoted to grade coins. Anyone with a firm sense of business acumen would realize the inherent liability of having a 'grading guarantee' and mail room flunkees grading coins would be hazardous at best.
<< <i>I agree with the op of his assessment of what goes on in the grading room. I will even go one step further,the new guy that is learning started in the mail room and after working with the graders for 3 months is allowed to grade on his own after 3 months, and if I am wrong about this occurring I am sure has heck right about it occurring at NGC. >>
If Rick Montgomery, Jim Young and company got started just three months ago then I'm a very slow learner since I can't grade as well as Rick does and I've been doing this for almost a decade.
I also know for fact that virtually every grader currently employed by PCGS and NGC are universally respected for their outstanding grading skills. I personally know most of those graders (and a bunch of former graders) who I would not hesitate to trust with their grading opinions. Ask any of those graders if they got started three months prior in the mailroom and chances are you'll be blown away by their resume of experience in the industry.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I guess as a business man and a coin collector, I'm just having a difficult time understanding that two independent graders must agree on a grade 'without seeing each others grade descignation'. I'm envisioning the 'ping pong' match that could go on, sending the coin back and forth until two grades match up. As a businessman, with 100's of coins to grade, I'd go nuts thinking about the wasted time.
Also, I hope 10 seconds is not the amount of time spent on grading. I don't care how good you are, but 10 seconds is not enough time. I realize that within 5 seconds you can get a 'quick' idea of grade, but a little more time is required to nail it with complete confidence in accuracy.
I just can't see one grader within 10 seconds saying 'altered surfaces' and then the next grader says the same thing in another 10 seconds. Can't be.
I'm probably wrong in all of this, but I just can't see it.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>I know from firsthand fact that your perceived grading scenario is incorrect. Before a final grade is declared on any coin at least two (sometimes more) graders are needed to agree on that grade. Also note that in normal circumstances it takes less than 10 seconds to properly grade a coin so the need to have coins graded by multiple graders would not cause any backlog.
I guess as a business man and a coin collector, I'm just having a difficult time understanding that two independent graders must agree on a grade 'without seeing each others grade descignation'. I'm envisioning the 'ping pong' match that could go on, sending the coin back and forth until two grades match up. As a businessman, with 100's of coins to grade, I'd go nuts thinking about the wasted time.
Also, I hope 10 seconds is not the amount of time spent on grading. I don't care how good you are, but 10 seconds is not enough time. I realize that within 5 seconds you can get a 'quick' idea of grade, but a little more time is required to nail it with complete confidence in accuracy.
I just can't see one grader within 10 seconds saying 'altered surfaces' and then the next grader says the same thing in another 10 seconds. Can't be.
I'm probably wrong in all of this, but I just can't see it. >>
With the exception of very old copper coins, 5 to 10 seconds is the ideal amount of time it takes to properly grade one coin. First impressions are fairly accurate and experienced graders can spot signs of cleaning, altered surfaces and other grading issues in an instant. In most circumstances it takes me less than two seconds to see signs of cleaning or surface alterations on silver coins.
Coins do not get "bounced from one guy to the other back and forth". If there is a disagreement between two graders the coin normally gets sent to a third grader. Somewhere on the PCGS or NGC websites there is an explaination and a short video detailing the grading process. The descriptions and video are fairly accurate.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Is it also true that nothing higher than a 5x loupe is used? >>
It's up to the individual grader and what they're comfortable with using, but many people (graders and dealers alike) do not use any magnifying tool to grade coins. Except for grading fractional gold and searching for varieties, I do not use any magnifying tool whatsoever to grade coins.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
If I didn't use any magnifying toll whatsoever, I would have made many, many costly mistakes in my time. I totally cannot comprehend purchasing a coin without magnification.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Is it also true that nothing higher than a 5x loupe is used? >>
No, the choice is up to the grader. According to David Hall, all that's needed for proper grading is 5x. I've also heard that higher power loupes tend to micro-grading, ie.
undergrading because the higher mag shows flaws more and that leads to lower grades.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it also true that nothing higher than a 5x loupe is used? >>
It's up to the individual grader and what they're comfortable with using, but many people (graders and dealers alike) do not use any magnifying tool to grade coins. Except for grading fractional gold and searching for varieties, I do not use any magnifying tool whatsoever to grade coins. >>
If that is the case how do you confirm if the toning is natural, if the surfaces are original, if it ihas been dipped too long, if there are hairlines under the toning, if it has been cleaned etc. >>
When you've seen enough coins you know what to look for. It takes experience and telltale signs are difficult to explain without using real life examples. Natural toning looks different from artificial toning, and original surfaces have different characteristics than altered ones, etc. Overdipping is very easy to spot while hidden hairlines can at times be more difficult to catch.
Wolf359 is correct...over-magnification results in micro-grading. Unless you're looking for VAM's and other varieties, you should not need magnification to grade a Morgan or Peace Dollar.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I'm probably wrong in all of this, but I just can't see it. >>
Out of the two posts you have made in this thread, the above statement is the only intelligent comment you made!
I believe David Hall himself stated that as a general rule the graders spend no more then 10 seconds per coin. If you have a five or six figure coin then probably more then ten seconds was spent on it. I would also imagine that consistence is part of the hiring criteria for graders. Is anyone perfect, probably not?
But if you have no faith in the graders of PCGS then what the heck are you doing on these boards or dealing with the product that PCGS produces?
My question is how can bulk grading be done independently by two different graders and any differences resolved by a third? Does the first bulk grader arange the coins by grade on a tray and then pass the tray to a second grader? The tray would have to be big enough to hold up to 200 coins without overlap and may be subdivided like the trays used in cases? so the coins wouldn't slide around. The compartments would be numbered and the grader would use shorthand on pad paper that matched the grid on the tray.
I usually submit bulk subs in tubes: I can't believe each coin is placed in a flip at PCGS for marking by the grader. Rather I bet the tubes are gently dumped onto a felt lined work area and then moved around to segrated by grade into the compartmentalized tray. The tray is then run by a second grader and if agreement occurs, the tray goes off to the staff person who transfers the now graded coins one by one into holders, matching the printed tags with each pile.
Don't know why I'm thinking out loud but have to kill time while my bed warms up (bedroom is in the 40's) and I'm frankly in awe of any grader who can segregate 100 to 200 coins by grade without going perfectly bonkers. I know I would.... Rob
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I started this thread with this intent. I found it 'interesting' to try to envision how a coin is graded.
I did not intend any disrespects to PCGS or its Graders.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
you should go to the PCGS home page and watch the 'how a coin is graded' video
what you describe is what the 3rd tier one-man operations do
the top tier grading companies use multiple graders -> 3 and then a 'finalizer'
so take 2 top-notch graders and they will agree 80% of the time
take 3 top-notch graders and 2 will be the same 97% of the time
you should have waited until Friday night to start this thread,
because the company that hosts this site has a tendency to kick-off
people that 'rag' on the company (that hosts this site)
and that is what you are doing
It is 10 seconds or so on actual grading. It is usually without magnification. I believe standard procedure is three graders on coins under $300 in value, two graders on some bulk moderns. On more expensive coins more time is often spent and sometimes four or five graders. If there is severe disagreement, what happens next depends on the value of the coin. Sometimes another set of eyes is brought in, sometimes there is a conference and each grader gets to state their reasons for their grade, sometimes the finalizer breaks the ties. On the run-of-the-mill coin, top graders can grade extremely quickly. Keep in mind they usually have a box of 100 of the same type of coin. For any liner coins, they can compare to the other coins in the box, as well as draw on the experience of having looked at and graded hundreds of thousands of coins. There is also a finalizer that "approves" the final slabbed coin.
The average collector may have graded in hand, a few hundred coins in the past year, and those would be the advanced collectors. The novices might have graded only a few dozen coins in hand or less. It is easy to see why there is disbelief, but experience, repetition, plus a lot of talent means a level of proficiency that novices can only imagine. Yes, mistakes happen, humans make mistakes, especially when they are doing so many coins.
<< <i>I know from firsthand fact that your perceived grading scenario is incorrect. Before a final grade is declared on any coin at least two (sometimes more) graders are needed to agree on that grade. Also note that in normal circumstances it takes less than 10 seconds to properly grade a coin so the need to have coins graded by multiple graders would not cause any backlog.
I guess as a business man and a coin collector, I'm just having a difficult time understanding that two independent graders must agree on a grade 'without seeing each others grade descignation'. I'm envisioning the 'ping pong' match that could go on, sending the coin back and forth until two grades match up. As a businessman, with 100's of coins to grade, I'd go nuts thinking about the wasted time.
Also, I hope 10 seconds is not the amount of time spent on grading. I don't care how good you are, but 10 seconds is not enough time. I realize that within 5 seconds you can get a 'quick' idea of grade, but a little more time is required to nail it with complete confidence in accuracy.
I just can't see one grader within 10 seconds saying 'altered surfaces' and then the next grader says the same thing in another 10 seconds. Can't be.
I'm probably wrong in all of this, but I just can't see it. >>
Thats why you are not a grader
It is too bad that you do not practice what you preach! You and DoubleEagle59 were the first to make “personal attacks” when you questioned the integrity of the Graders at both PCGS and NGC. I have dealt with several graders at both NGC and PCGS and I find them to be honest and competent, and very doubtful that they got their jobs after three months in the mailroom.
DoubleEagle59 has since his first few post, stood up to the plate and stated that ” I did not intend any disrespects to PCGS or its Graders.” I will take DoubleEagle59 at his word that he wasn’t questioning the integrity of the Graders. As others have mentioned, maybe the tone in the first few post should have been a little more on the positive side if the intent was just to have an “informative chat”. There is nothing wrong with questioning something or asking questions but doing it in an insulting way will cause people to jump back.
JMHO
End of Rant
<< <i>Let me ask you another question how often are graders fired or admonished and or accused of crimial activity? >>
The market magnifies the mistakes and highlights them. The properly graded coins sail on through without notice or fuss.
Criminal activity? Hardly ever. Fired? Again, rare. Why such pointed questions? Mistakes happen. Do something 1000 times a day and there are going to be mistakes. Human graders make human mistakes. Is that news? Does an employee have to be fired if they make a mistake, especially a subjective mistake? Criminal charges? Where is that question from? There are a lot of safeguards against that sort of thing. Could it happen? Sure, it could happen, but the graders make a very good salary, and a submitter can't be entirely sure who will see their coin, unless it is a walk through at a show. Even then, the submitter would have to bribe at least two people, possibly three, or four. I don't like the tone of these questions. The bribe better be large to tempt someone making six figures as salary. Most coins aren't worth that much, and those that are, are under a microscope and often get seen by four or five graders plus the finalizer.
We do? I don't.
And that sir is the point of my thread
Your thread? Did somebody just bust their alias?
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<< <i>I just think it is weird to see some of these blatant errors on big money coins, and we all know what coins I am speaking of, I only want more oversight, more protection and I am willing to pay for it through higher fees for a closer look at what I got. I rather not seek out the CAC I rather go to the TPG that I trust the most, PCGS, for a second looksy if that is ok with you. And that sir is the point of my thread, what am I saying that is so scary? >>
Perhaps the questions are good, and many other relatively new collectors have similar thoughts.
That said, blatant errors on big money coins? No, I'm sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. Again, human graders make human errors. In any business there are human pressures with bosses, and customers. Average human mistakes and business pressures, are enough to explain what I see.
The average collector probably grades fewer coins in an a year, than the average pro grader does in one working day. The average newbie collector probably grades fewer in a year, than a pro grader grades in an hour. These realities color my perception of comments made.
<< <i>I just think it is weird to see some of these blatant errors on big money coins, and we all know what coins I am speaking of,
We do? I don't.
And that sir is the point of my thread
Your thread? Did somebody just bust their alias? >>
Another sock puppet... This one had me fooled.
As in life, many things can't really be conveyed verbally without actually showing what one is talking about.
For the last 9 years I have taught the "Advanced Coin Grading And Problem Class" at the ANA's summer seminar. This class answers many of these questions. I have NEVER had a student tell me he/she didn't get more knowledge than they expected. It may very well be the best bang for the buck in numismatics. But remember, this class in not for the casual collector, but for the advanced one with a very STRONG grasp of the grading process. (It is also the most fun I have in the industry. It is the highlight of my career on a yearly basis.)
There is a reason why we are made with two eyes, two ears, yet only one mouth.
njcoincrank
DoubleEagle59 has since his first few post, stood up to the plate and stated that ” I did not intend any disrespects to PCGS or its Graders.” I will take DoubleEagle59 at his word that he wasn’t questioning the integrity of the Graders. As others have mentioned, maybe the tone in the first few post should have been a little more on the positive side if the intent was just to have an “informative chat
I agree that the first post was a little over the top on my behalf and I could have worded it much better.
And that sir is the point of my thread. Your thread? Did somebody just bust their alias? >> Another sock puppet... This one had me fooled.
I'm not quite sure if he is saying that 'Realone' and myself 'Doubleeagle59' are the same person, but if he is, I can assure you that we are two different people. PM me for my phone number and call me. I'll be here. I do want to thank 'Realone' for seeing my side of the story and understanding what I am questioning here.
<< I just think it is weird to see some of these blatant errors on big money coins, and we all know what coins I am speaking of, We do? I don't.
and my last point....For over 30 years, I have been doing appraisals on jewelry and gemstones, which is exactly the same TYPE of profession a coin grader does - he GRADES coins. Now , I can tell you this, a jewelry appraiser cannot get away from making any mistakes, because everything is on PAPER. If I grossly misgrade a diamond or even get something totally wrong - it's on PAPER and my mistake is out there for everyone to see.
and being human, every year, I was good for two or three mistakes. Something very similar to a coin grader - mistakes will happen, and I understand this. But this is where my initial point of my thread kicks in. In doing my appraisals, if I had TWO MORE independent appraisers in my office checking (or verifying) EACH and EVERY ONE of my jewelry appraisals, I can assure you that NO mistakes would ever be made!!
I want everyone to seriously think about this as it is the initial thought I had that made me start this thread in the first place.
This thread has nothing to do with accusing any company or grader of being incompetent, dishonest. I truly believe PCGS to be the no. 1 grading company in the USA.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
when the coins are graded, that is how they looked that day
some coins are submitted that have been dipped or played with that are going to look different a year from now than they look today - the graders grade on what they see today - not what they think they will look like in a year
many examples of CAM or DCAM proof messed with that have white areas disappear or nleed onto fields or tuen blue in a few years
many examples of puttied or thumbed fields or cheeks that crack or change color
other coins have been altered by how they have been kept in the slab long after being graded - exposure to gases and temperature changes can affect the coin in the slab
some coins actually do improve in the slab as toning that has been started in a holder continues on for awhile
Coin grading is a different animal. First, they aren't doing an appraisal. Second, coins can come with problems (ie. cleaned, artifical toning, scratched) - and net grading comes into play here - which is subjective. Third, to paraphrase David Hall (but not slaughter the meaning), one of his Q&A posts stated you give the best grader in the world a box of coins. Record the grades. Put the box away for a year, then have the same grader grade them again and compare. PCGS has apparently done this and a significant percentage of the grades change. That's because of liner coins and human nature, not "mistakes".
Part of grading is "eye appeal", which varies with everyone. So toned coins can go from a bodybag to an extra point as a bonus. Or deduct a point if you aren't sure the toning is real. Which answer is correct? All of them are, it depends on the grader. Another example is how much should a 100% original coin be rewarded versus a lightly dipped one in the same condition? A point? Two points? or none at all? How much do you deduct for a moderate scratch on a circulated coin? It depends on length, noticability and location...all subjective again. What about if a small part of the coin was wiped, but the rest is perfect? Do you holder it or bag it? How many points do you deduct if you holder it?
None of that is spelled out in any book, nor can it be, which is why grading is an art as well as a science.
It's my opinion that coin grading is far more complex then you realize.
So please don't say that mistakes shouldn't be made. In reality, there are very few mistakes, and just many differnet opinions. It's all part
of the game.
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As an analogy, when I was in highschool I played basketball. I was pretty good. In fact, I was the starting center and we made it to the state championship for the first time in 22 years. My basketball skill compared to somebody like Michael Jordan is about the same as comparing the grading skill of the average collector to the graders at the big two.
Russ, NCNE
Thats kind of a dumb comment, if you think back grading at ANA years ago,they used up to 5 graders, on the back of there cards you could see there graders and the picture was on the obverse of the cards!
So why not PCGS use two or three, i wish they would send the grade cards back with the slab coin.
25 inf 1/14 Gold Dragons ,never surrender, over come and adapt
and hold at all cost!
I can only speak for PCGS,
but at PCGS, the policy is that no coin leaves the building unless at least two graders agree on the grade of the coin. This goes for all services...regular, regrade, crossover, bulk, Presidential Review...everything.
There is one exception. On the ultra modern coins in super high grade, we verify the 70s with two or more graders, but the 69s (basically 70s rejects) can just have one grader.
That's how we do it and that's how we've always done it...NO COIN OUT THE DOOR WITHOUT AT LEAST TWO GRADERS AGREEING.
hrh
Actually, a jewelry appraisal is more complex than a coin grading service. (and it certainly cannot be done in 10 seconds)
To appraise, you must do three things: Identify, Grade and Price.
A coin grader does only two of these.
And Appraising can be just as difficult. Take for instance an emerald. Is it a fine Natural emerald or is it other possibilities: There are excellent Synthetic emeralds that require very close examination of the stone for a precise identification. There's also Oiling of its surfaces (acceptable practise) and Green-colored Oiling of the Emerald(not Accepted practise)
And I totally agree that the same coin grader can look at a coin 12 months later and give it a slightly different grade. I totally accept this. It's when the coin has a difference of TWO or more grades, then someone has erred either the first time or the next.
It's analogous with diamond grading. When grading for color, I give the color as two grades (ex. G-H) I know the diamond is no way an F or an I color. Twelve months later when I grade this same diamond, I have either a G or H color as my margin. Two grades makes sense because theoretically, adjacent grades 'merge' into each other. There is no definitive boundary of grades. ex. the highest H color, is the lowest G color, or for the coin collectors, the highest ms63 grade can be called the lowest ms64.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>My point is basically this - if two graders must agree on a grade, there would be such a backlog of coins to be regraded that eventually it would be seen as uneconomical for the company to maintain this policy.
Do you agree or not? >>
DoubleEagle59
<< <i>I can only speak for PCGS,
but at PCGS, the policy is that no coin leaves the building unless at least two graders agree on the grade of the coin. This goes for all services...regular, regrade, crossover, bulk, Presidential Review...everything.
There is one exception. On the ultra modern coins in super high grade, we verify the 70s with two or more graders, but the 69s (basically 70s rejects) can just have one grader.
That's how we do it and that's how we've always done it...NO COIN OUT THE DOOR WITHOUT AT LEAST TWO GRADERS AGREEING.
hrh >>
Homerunhall
Let's move along folks, move along, nothing else to see here, the question has been answered
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>I can only speak for PCGS,
but at PCGS, the policy is that no coin leaves the building unless at least two graders agree on the grade of the coin. This goes for all services...regular, regrade, crossover, bulk, Presidential Review...everything.
There is one exception. On the ultra modern coins in super high grade, we verify the 70s with two or more graders, but the 69s (basically 70s rejects) can just have one grader.
That's how we do it and that's how we've always done it...NO COIN OUT THE DOOR WITHOUT AT LEAST TWO GRADERS AGREEING.
hrh >>
David, thanks for posting that, and, the "ultra modern 69 grades" now makes a few things clear (speed at which they are done and why some seem not to be a 69....everyone makes mistakes)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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A coin grader does only two of these.
That's wrong as well, but I'll be like you and reject the first sentence, and ignore the rest.
Moving along.
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i guess we can unload the poof gun now
There is a PCGS grading process video. It's on the PCGS home page. Just click the link and watch the video.
hrh
David,
I don't understand why you verify the modern 70s with a second grader but the 69s only require one grader....??? Can't a grader just as easily initially think a coin is a 69 as he can think it's a 70? The logic that says a second opinion ISN'T required for 69s seems to undermine your whole philosphy.
The grading system says that even though graders are sharp cookies, anybody can make a mistake, so that's why at least two people need to look at a coin. Why is this protocol suspended in cases when the grader sees a modern coin as a 69? That coin may not be a 70, but it also may be less than a 69.