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1953-D MS66 Franklin auctioned for 3X going rate!

More evidence that all the doom and gloom naysayers who predicted the toned coin market would soon come crashing down

were WRONG!

This Heritage lot shows that, at least for coins that are irrefutably original mint set rainbows, the toner market continues to rock and roll!
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary






Best Franklin Website

Comments

  • SkyManSkyMan Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Big surprise, eh? image

    Let's be realistic, a pretty coin is a pretty coin, and as such will always generate more interest than your average looking coin.
  • DieClashDieClash Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭
    Did you look at the Close up pic of the Reverse? Maybe there's a smudge on the plastic, but I can't see how that got the FBL designation. image
    "Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW
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  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    this is a prime example of manipulation ; nobody really paid that much for this coin !
    This was not a real sale , believe it or not .
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This was not a real sale , believe it or not . >>




    If it sold it's a real sale to me!!! All it takes are 2 registry hounds to drive the price up!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    you may be right Marty , but there are plenty of PCGS 1953-D's in 66 on the market right now for less then half of what this coin "sold" for .
    Teletrade pulls the same stunt ; a coin is "sold" for say 2000$ ; it gets returned ........ yet they still show it as a sale in their auction records .
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Time will tell. Maybe someone liked the color?
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    the color is REALLY nice , no doubt , but I have had my hand on the pulse of the Franklin market for many years and there are VERY FEW buyers out there for THIS coin at THAT level .
  • bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616


    << <i>this is a prime example of manipulation ; nobody really paid that much for this coin !
    This was not a real sale , believe it or not . >>



    Your evidence , Sir?
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website


  • << <i>More evidence that all the doom and gloom naysayers who predicted the toned coin market would soon come crashing down >>



    << <i>were WRONG! >>



    Granted, I am just one collector. I used to purchase outrageous toners but I no longer do unless the coin looks certifiably original. It would have to have toning that is just right for me even to consider it. AND, I will no longer pay a great premium for toning.

    In fact, I mostly just buy gold now. Gold only gets crusty, it doesn't tone. I can concentrate on strike, luster and technical aspects of the coin. It doesn't even take a rocket scientist to see if the surfaces of a gold coin look messed with.

    I'm quite sure that I am not alone in my feelings about gold toning. I am also certain that there are enough people like me to certainly change the way toners move in auction.

    Sure there will always be new numismatists that will be willing to throw a lot of $$$ at pretty colors; but as they get more seasoned they will quickly learn of the perils of rash decisions.
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    My evidence would be that over the past couple of years 1951-D - 1954-D PCGS MS66 FBL Franklins have traded right around the 1000$ level.Quite a few at less then that and a couple for more . The sellers had to work pretty hard to sell even at the 1000$ level . So , while this piece has nice tone , it is not the kind of tone that drives bidders to push a coin to such a high level . It's a gut feeling , an educated opinion based on instincts ; the coin would not bring that money on an open format such as T.T. or eBay .

    however : the juice in this case is something near 500$ , but that would still mean bids of over 2 grand . It is much more likely the price this coin sold for was "helped" rather then achieving such a inflated dollar amount on it's own merits.

    Remember Mr. Tomaska's 1960-D that "sold" for some outrageous price to some novice ?? We had "proof" that it sold right ?
    Yet you were one of the first to say you thought the sale was a "sham" . What was your evidence ?
  • bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616
    I really think that the linked 53-D is sufficiently nice to be considered worthy of 2X the going rate. It is easily the nicest, most attractive 53-D in my

    memory. I suspect it is even nicer than the Heritage pic would lead one to beleive, given the nature of Heritages' pix. I think the winner did well, and

    no way is "buried". There are so many examples of collectors stepping up to the plate to bid amounts many folks considered exorbitant at the time, only

    to do very well when the coin was sold off. The Larry Shepard Commems come to mind. And Franklin collector Supercarcoins, who was scoffed at for

    paying $4K for an amazing toned 49-S, only to sell it back to the seller a couple years later for $6K. A nice gain IMO.
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭

    I honestly think the winner did well despite the premium. There have been toning naysayers for DECADES and yet the market continues. image



    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    I am all for toned coins and respect someone in the know who pay's a big premium to get what they want . The people that lay out thousands of dollars for toned gems are unaffected as a whole by the "doctored" coins because they for the most part know how to spot one . THIS '53-D ,as was already pointed out - has bell lines that are questionable .

    As Marty said , time will tell . It is a pretty coin and I had a bid on it ; but I still do not believe someone paid over 2 grand for it .

    I went back and checked and of all the 53-D's in 66 Heritage has sold the past 7 years or so , none were as attractive as this one . Only one I ever saw prettier was the Tomaska piece that I think came out of the #1 Franklin set when the owner upgraded to the lone MS67 . You can see it on Tomaska's website ;it was an Everest Coin .

    THIS being the case , I can see someone paying 2400$ or so for the coin . But that would mean the buyer had tremendous insight , an intelligent attitude and the fortitude to make the call . There are only a couple of these type of high rolling Franklin buffs out there - and they did not purchase this piece .
  • bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616
    There is a new breed out there. Collectors who have never heard of John Wooten, Greg Lewis, or Steve Leber. image
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    .........may the Force be with them .........
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    ..it turns out the buyer of this coin is of no "new breed" . The buyer of this coin is an institution in Franklin Half Dollars .
  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭
    That's a sweet coin. If I were rich and wanted the best 53-D possible for my set, I'd probably stick my paddle in the air till I owned it. That's likely what happened here.

  • Hello Bushmaster -

    I bought the coin. It is among the most stunning mint set color toned 1953-D Franklin halves I've seen. Superb color Franklin halves are a great value - when you can find them. Go to any major show and you will find hundreds of superb color toned Morgans, but try finding a single outstanding color Franklin. This is not a negative of color Morgans, but only meant to point out the tremendous rarity and value in superb color Franklins.

    If you like, I can post a pic.

    RT
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    That's good to see since I know someone looking to sell those in the grade, but the toning is much nicer A++++++
  • bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616
    It is an amazing looking coin! Yes, UltimateCameo, please do show us another pic!
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I want to see more pics as well!

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    The problem is not that the market is going to come crashing down. The makers are for the most part too smart for that. The problem is that they are making more of these every day. If folks want to pay a big premium for something made last year or a few years ago, go ahead. However, understand after a while there probably will be a lot more of them.

    I understand the anger of the toner collectors. They have a lot of time and money invested. However, the reality is about as clear as crystal. In the case of the major grading companies their standards seem to vary with the wind. Some days they bag everything, other days strange looking questionable coins get through. I can reference the one story about someone submitting Silver Eagles. On a lark sent in a big batch of wild looking toners and all of them got through into holders. Many times later, on many separate submissions, he tried again with similarly toned coins and every one of them got bagged.

    Link
    thread about submitting eagle toners

    Collect what you like, but go in with eyes open and not rose colored glasses. If a person wants to pay big money for pretty toners, understand that a big batch may go get slabbed next week and the value of those coins may take a big hit. Market acceptable is a moving target, always has been, always will be.

  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    The only thing certifiable in

    this day and age.....is the collector.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I understand the anger of the toner collectors. They have a lot of time and money invested. However, the reality is about as clear as crystal. In the case of the major grading companies their standards seem to vary with the wind. Some days they bag everything, other days strange looking questionable coins get through. >>



    RedTiger - You are right. The thing is, toner collectors can be futher divided into sub-groups. Some like light toning, heavy toning, brightly colored toning, toning that one would consider very "traditional" toning, etc. Those that collect "traditional" toning such as seen with this 53-D Franklin will always see a demand for these coins. However, those that collect brightly toned coins will certainly see some crazy highs and lows. Very dangerous field to play in if collecting for investment purposes is your motivation.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    what happened to this coin ?
  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>what happened to this coin ? >>



    Buried I hope. It is not a coin you would you would ever own Mr. Paul
    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    image

    This is a cartoonish pix Tomaska provided after he bought the coin .

    I have the strongest suspicion , (which is supported by another Franklin specialist ), that this coin is A.T.

    This is perplexing to me ,as Mr. Tomaska ,as skilled as he might be ......seems to lack the ability to spot an A.T. coin .

    I have brought several to his attention and he thought they "looked alright" to him

    imageimage
  • The coin is nice, and whatever someone is willing to pay for it, is what its worth. I dont personally wouldnt spend more than $2k on this coin.





    As to an 'expert' not ebing able to spot an AT'ed coin... The coin got PCGS first didnt it? Thats the bigger, scarier issue.
    Also, what makes someone that specializes in a series an expert on originality? He is a dealer, yea he has written some books, but that doesnt mean his eyes see originality...
    PCGS said the coin was market acceptable..... So AT is possible.

    How does the current owner/member of the coin feel after seeing it in hand, does he still post?

  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    " someone that specializes in a series an expert on originality? "

    ........they better be - else they ain't no expert .

    Coins do get past PCGS that are A.T ; and the one that did the doctoring looking at the coin in a PCGS slab can state so absolutely .
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am still not sure that this one coin going for relatively large money indicates the market is booming and healthy across the boards.

    I have long ago learned to keep my opinions about toning to myslef as it seems that everything is "NT" on this board even though many have been fairly obviously manipulated. I have even gotten PMs that were rather threatening for simply stating IMOs.

    I say if fools go for such, let them for I have no stake in it.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845


    << <i>

    << <i>the color is REALLY nice , no doubt , but I have had my hand on the pulse of the Franklin market for many years and there are VERY FEW buyers out there for THIS coin at THAT level . >>



    Pawpaul you did not call it AT here, why the change in opinion? Bushmaster also supports that he likes the color as well. >>




    The color is very nice - no doubt about that !

    Lets just say I got additional information about this particular specific coin recently and my original suspicions have been heavily strengthened by

    new evidence provided to me from a highly reputable source .

    The coin does not appear to be A.T just by looking at it

    - but as I said ; I am privy to inside information now ........... and in so , believe the coin

    is not originally toned .
  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    This just goes to prove......

    If a coin looks too good to be true

    IT PROBABLY IS NOT TRUE.


    Boy, you gotta be really careful out there.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage


  • << <i>More evidence that all the doom and gloom naysayers who predicted the toned coin market would soon come crashing down

    were WRONG!

    This Heritage lot shows that, at least for coins that are irrefutably original mint set rainbows, the toner market continues to rock and roll! >>



    iriefruitable ?

    I wonder who the underbidder was on this coin ? and again, it sure look's to me like an orig. Mint Set piece ; but someone I respect quite well sez otherwise

    nobody can say erriefrutably I guess
  • The toning on the '53-D reminds me of this '52-D I have...

    image
    image
    image
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Geez, this is getting ridiculous. Now the masses are saying EVERYTHING is AT. If it gets any worse we could see another round of mass dipping like we had in the 1970s.
  • Was NP the high bidder? image
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    RT was high bidder
  • This 53-D on Teletrade tonite gets my vote for best 53-D of all time!
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • PCcoinsPCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭
    The '53-d on TT looks very nice, but I like Tom B's '53-d better. What do you think?

    1953-d Franklin
    "It is what it is."
  • I think I'd have to say Tom's is 2nd best, as it is one sided color.
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    is it safe to say that the original post of this thread showing a coin
    selling for moon money at the time was a terrible investment?
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    i think Tom's coin and the T.T piece are very similar .......... I wanted them both !

    The T.T piece however went for far more money then I thought it would , I thought I could snag it for less then 1200$ .

    I am glad it went for way over PCGS guide price and hope it was a real sale .

    It also pleases me that there are some out there that know a special piece when they see it image
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845


    << <i>is it safe to say that the original post of this thread showing a coin
    selling for moon money at the time was a terrible investment? >>



    fc - i do not know for sure ........at that price I doubt it could be a good investment . Someone I believe bought it from the orig. high bidder (R.T.)

    and only time will tell if it's a money maker for that person that bought it from him .

    I would say odds are it may never be sold at a profit

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