What are the chances of me getting screwed on this?

Aethelred

In November I sent a Registered package to Italy. The coin that I sent was sold on eBay and paid for using Paypal by an unconfirmed buyer. The buyer has filed a dispute with Paypal saying that he never got the coin and Paypal has frozen $122 of my account. I have the Registered form and receipt and have provided that information to Paypal.

Based on what I have read here in the past I am of the opinion that I am out the coin and the $122.

What do you think my chances of winning this dispute are and do you have any advice?

Many thanks!

farthing

You're toast!

ajaan

You're burnt toast. Did you check the Registration number on USPS.com to see if the package was delivered?

koincollect

Here is what Paypal says on this--



<< <i>Once a dispute has been escalated into a valid claim, PayPal will contact the seller and investigate your claim. If the claim involves non-delivery of goods, the seller must present appropriate proof of shipment to the buyer’s specified address. If the claim is granted, PayPal will seek to collect from the seller by debiting the seller’s PayPal account. PayPal may also limit the seller's access to his or her PayPal account. If there is more than one claim against the same account, we will process the claims in the order they are filed, and will pay out on each granted claim up to the amount of funds in the seller’s account at the time the claim is awarded, but not more than the amount of the claim. However, there may not be sufficient funds in the seller’s account to pay any of your claim. RECOVERY OF YOUR CLAIM IS NOT GUARANTEED. >>



In theory you should get your money back!

Best of luck!

spinaker2000

Goodbye $122!!

Aethelred

<< <i>You're burnt toast. Did you check the Registration number on USPS.com to see if the package was delivered? >>



The USPS website shows that it was sent, but does not show what happened after that.

Aethelred

<< <i>Goodbye $122!! >>



I have a feeling you are correct, I'm just glad it wasn't a big sum of money.

coinpictures

Sorry to say that you are utterly hosed. PayPal does not consider Registered Mail to be "proof of delivery."

I'm always wary any time someone from Italy buys something from me. No offense intended, but I have had more things "disappear" in the mail to Italy than any other country...

Aethelred

What do I do in the future to avoid issues like this?

weresteve

What do I do in the future to avoid issues like this?

For better or worse ... at least from the Postal Service ... Global Express Mail Guaranteed appears to be the only international option with online tracking. Not certain how this would compare with ... say ... FedEx as an example.

coinpictures

<< <i> What do I do in the future to avoid issues like this?

For better or worse ... at least from the Postal Service ... Global Express Mail Guaranteed appears to be the only international option with online tracking. Not certain how this would compare with ... say ... FedEx as an example. >>



Unfortunately Global Express Mail is stupidly expensive. On a $120 purchase most buyers would balk at the $20+ it would cost.

There is no perfect solution.

How I handle it is via a contract with a third-party insurance company rather than using USPS insurance. For one thing, the rates are cheaper. More importantly, you are not bound by USPS's ridiculous limitations (e.g., in order to insure internationally you have to send Air Parcel Post, not Air Letter Post; indemnity on international Registered Mail being $44).

So if someone claims their merchandise doesn't arrive, I fill out a claim form with all the pertinent facts, email it to the buyer, and ask them to print it out and sign it. Then as soon as I receive the form back either via snail mail, or a scan of the signed form by email, I refund their money immediately. No sense making the buyer wait (there's a 45-day waiting period before you can file on an international claim).

Now you always run the risk that if the buyer is scamming you that they may be unwilling to sign the claim form for you, in which case (1) you're screwed, but (2) you know for certain they were scamming you.

I don't know if this would play a part in the PayPal dispute process or not, telling PayPal "I'm willing to refund the buyer as soon as they return the signed insurance claim form to me but they are not cooperating."

wybrit

The USPS website shows that it was sent, but does not show what happened after that.

I have never seen a registered letter be acknowledged as delivered, unless a return receipt comes back to me. If you have, you're luckier than I.

What do I do in the future to avoid issues like this?

I'm being a bit of a "master of the obvious,' but don't allow bidders from Italy in future.

Global Express Mail Guaranteed appears to be the only international option with online tracking.

I don't believe the PO allows coins to be shipped that way. Of course, I didn't do my homework and check.

It's stuff like this that really makes me sweat out overseas delivery. Registered mail is pretty secure, but if the buyer is a jerk, you get the shaft almost every time.

Aethelred

I am of the opinion that this whole thing sucks. My only prayer here (and I know the chance of this is about 2% or less) is that the buyer is being honest and has not received the package which is tied up in customs, and will get it soon and drop the Paypal dispute.

I am chalking this up as $122 worth of education.

I have bought items from Italy and sold items to Italy in the past and never had a problem, I really don't want to block Italy because of this.


I am considering the following:

1. Do not accept Paypal on overseas purchases over $50.

2. Force overseas buyers of items over $50 to pay the absurd rates that allow tracking.

3. Consider using shippers other than USPS for overseas business.

SYRACUSIAN

If you have the Registered form and receipt ,you should go to your Post Office and demand to have this parcel tracked. I know that it's a rather busy season for them, but this is why you paid the registration fees to begin with. Paypal does not consider the form itself as a proof, and rightfully so, because someone along the way might have stolen it. It is the sender's Post Office's duty to discover what happened to it and report back to you. Don't forget that the person on the other end had to sign in order to receive the parcel, so the investigation will either show that there is a proof of delivery afterall, or that the parcel has been lost somewhere along the way. All this, at no extra cost to you.

theboz11

You can call the postmaster and get a trace on the package, the total itinerary of its travel will be mailed to you in about 6 weeks! Did you fill out a customs form, it is proof of mailing also. Stay firm and do not give into the arb., act like your last meal depends on you getting your money unfrozen.

josemartins

In some countries the P.O. website tracks packages sent from abroad, i don't know if this is the case with the "Poste" but you can try:

"Poste"

Insert code and "ricerca" (this service isn't available in English)...

Good luck!
Jose

rhound1977

Good read, and In the back of my mind a concern to me, sorry this has happened to you Michael, it is a fare sum of money, even if you are not skipping a meal because of it.

Is there really a viable solution, for sending more pricey items overseas and tracking them? I am uncertain. I have always taken the risk so far and have been lucky.

For what little I know there is NO way with the USPS to track or insure any parcel/package from my door to the door of the recipient overseas.

Am I missing something?

mojoman

<< <i>What do I do in the future to avoid issues like this? >>



I found out thru the U.S postal department that it is illegal to mail coins,bullion etc to italy,I have mailed a few ,but under the declaration I said it was a token, not a coin, these are small amount $$$ but I will have to go with global express for higher amounts , and if they do not want to pay the fees, well they do not get the coin,I also found out that the UK requires registered mail, thats around $9.00 or take the chance and mail it air mail with no chance of knowing if the person ever got the item, overseas shipping is becoming a little on the expensive side now with all the new laws,
www.usps.com go to international shipping to see the cost and regulations
p.s I hope things work out for you,I lost 57.50 to a U.S buyerr I had delivery confirmation,positive feedback from the buyer and 3 months later he siad he did not authorize the use of his card! ,he also burned a few other sellers on ebay and got booted off yet paypal sided with the creditcard company ? I almost stopped acceting paypal for that reason alone.MoJo

Popcoin

I happen to be on the other side of this situation.

Chinacoin (feedback) , I know, I know,
had two 1993 BVI $25 Proofs (a panda and a polar bear) I wanted.

I made an offer of $150 including shipping.
He accepted the offer, asked that I not place a bid thru ebay (to save that cost).
I paid via Paypal and he said the coins were shipped on 11/17.

I have sent 4 emails inquiring about the coins starting on 12/11 and have recieved no response.

Aethelred, I am sure you responded to his emails.

Should I file a Paypal dispute???

Larry

newsman

<< <i>If you have the Registered form and receipt ,you should go to your Post Office and demand to have this parcel tracked. I know that it's a rather busy season for them, but this is why you paid the registration fees to begin with. Paypal does not consider the form itself as a proof, and rightfully so, because someone along the way might have stolen it. It is the sender's Post Office's duty to discover what happened to it and report back to you. Don't forget that the person on the other end had to sign in order to receive the parcel, so the investigation will either show that there is a proof of delivery afterall, or that the parcel has been lost somewhere along the way. All this, at no extra cost to you. >>



I wouldn't trust too much about the signature receipt. When I get registered mail from abroad, the mail carrier just dumps it in the box with the return receipt, because he can't read it.

Doesn't registration comes with insurance? Maybe you can file a claim with the USPS.

CIVITAS

A few glimmers of hope:

1. Recent buzz I heard (recent being a few months ago) was that Italy was stopping ALL packages for customs inspections resulting in delays of weeks to months for delivery.
2. Start an inquiry with the post office as that flushes these things out about 75% of the time.
3. If the inquiry determines it's lost, you can at least file for the $44.86 maximum indemnity if you paid for insurance (I usually don't though).

The downside: Italy is notorious for registered items going missing.