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Yesterday I bought 2 MS sets of 1938-64 Jeffersons. Jeffy experts, what coins should I look for goin

SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
The 2 sets were assembled in the 1959-1964 time frame according to the guy at the coin shop that sold me the sets (part of a bulk purchase of an old time collection, which also included an MS silver Roosie set, an MS Frankie set and an MS Walker 41-47 short set).

The price of the two sets was modest and this is my first foray into MS Jeffersons. Hoping I find some good stuff in the two sets.

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    seanqseanq Posts: 8,836 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought a similar set recently, Jeffersons are somewhat undervalued right now unless they're in the right plastic. Here's what I look for in no particular order:

    a) Full steps. Look at the 1940-D and 1941-D first, as steps on those dates are typically very nice, to get an idea what full steps look like. The '38 (and maybe the '39) coins will have wavier steps.

    b) Mintmark varieties. Start with the war nickels, as they are the easiest to spot and RPMs are legion. After the silver issues, the following dates have well known RPMs or OMMs: 1940-S, 1941-S, 1942-D, 1946-D, 1949-D, 1954-S, 1955-D. Check the 1941-S for the large mintmark while you're at it, they are relatively comon but still command a slight premium.

    c) Doubled dies. Check them all, of course, but the following dates have well-known doubled dies: 1938 (obv), 1939 (rev), 1942 type I (obv), 1943-p (obv), 1945-P (rev), 1946-S (obv), 1947 (rev), 1956 (rev), and 1962 (rev).


    Be sure to let us know what you find (oh, and buy a camera so we can see them, too image ).


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the useful information Sean. I appreciate the road map and look forward to checking out the coins for anything special. I misplaced my loupe so I may have to get another one before I can strat looking at the coins. My eye sight is no longer 20-20 and looking at things close up is a problem since they are blurry.

    I will give an updated report on my findings.
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    SkyManSkyMan Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those of us that are ignorant what is an RPM? Also, is an OMM an overstrike MM? Thank you.
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    seanqseanq Posts: 8,836 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For those of us that are ignorant what is an RPM? Also, is an OMM an overstrike MM? Thank you. >>



    RPM = Repunched Mintmark. Multiple misaligned punchings of the same mintmark (for example, from my list above, the 1940 could be an S/S repunched mintmark).
    OMM = Overmintmark. When a different mintmark is punched over an existing one (for example, the 1954-S/D and 1955-D/S nickels).

    If you ever want to look these up yourself, the CONECA site has an online glossary with these and dozens of other terms used to describe error and variety coins.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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    SkyManSkyMan Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pick up a replacement loupe and have just spent about 10 minutes looking at the individual coins in the two sets of MS Jeffersons. My thoughts are:

    1. Just cuz a coin is MS does not mean it is well struck and crisp in appearance; and

    2. Building a high quality MS set of Jeffersons would be a time consuming, labor intensive and maybe impossible task.

    The coins in the two sets, at first glance without a loupe and under good lighting all look nice. However, after looking at them through a loupe, the quality of the coins is from very, very good to lousy. Almost all of the coins have original skin. Some are toned nicely, some have no toning and some have so so toning. Some of the earlier dates and the war nickels are nicely struck. The post war coins in the sets (46-64) have very few with nice strikes. Many of the coins look like they were struck with worn out dies so that no matter how good the striking of die on planchet, the end result is an unappealing coin that looks like it has been worn down in circulation (except for original skin). Many coins also have numerous marks, though I suspect that many of the marks are planchet flaws that survived in the strking chamber instead of post minting marks. Many also have close to a full set of unbroken steps (or even completely full steps) but the other parts of Monticello are quiet mushy. I assume since nickel is a hard metal (much harder than silver), the dies wore out very quickly when these coins were produced. If the dies were not made well to begin with (i.e. worn master die or master hub) and/or deteriorated fast but were not timely replaced, the end result would be MS 38-64 Jeffys that on the whole are nice very nice looking coins.

    So far I can only say that looking at these coins is very interesting. The money I spent, plus prior posts of Jeffersons on this forum, will provide me with an education in nickels in general (I understand buffalos have mushy strikes as well) and early Jeffersons in particular.
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Took a little bit closer of a look at the coins with a loupe. Going off of Sean's list in his earlier reply, I located a 1945 P reverse doubled die.

    The doubling is most apparent in the "TICELLO" of Monticello, the "CENTS" and the "STATES OF" located under the building. Way Cool IMOimage
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    seanqseanq Posts: 8,836 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Took a little bit closer of a look at the coins with a loupe. Going off of Sean's list in his earlier reply, I located a 1945 P reverse doubled die.

    The doubling is most apparent in the "TICELLO" of Monticello, the "CENTS" and the "STATES OF" located under the building. Way Cool IMOimage >>



    Great find! I'm happy I was able to point you in the right direction.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
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    WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    I keep this list handy as a reference...when you start to age, so does your memory.

    Jefferson Nickel error coins & specialties

    1939 P Double Die-doubled Monticello & Five Cents
    1942 D Horizontal D, correct D over horizontal D
    1943 P Double eye
    1943/2 P
    1945 P Double Die Reverse
    1946 D Horizontal D, correct D over Horizontal D
    1949 D “D over S”
    1954 S “D over S”
    1955 D “D over S”
    1971 S No “S” on proof
    1979 S filled S open S
    1981 S filled S open S
    1994 Matte Finish
    1998 Matte Finish
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
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    mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, cool! If you find yourself with some duplicates you want to sell or trade, please keep me in mind. I am working on a set of Choice BU original Jeffs too.

    MD
    mirabela
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Look for the gems and full steps, of course. This applies especially to the post 1951 issues
    and to the S mints. Nice strikes of some of these are pretty tough. They may not be worth
    slabbing yet unless they're high grade but coins like a '54-S with a nice strike are tough.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i> but coins like a '54-S with a nice strike are tough. >>



    I have yet to get one of these "rascals" with just plain ole' steps on Monticello much less "Full Steps" My uncirculated 54's look like MS-65's til you flip them over to see the reverse... all the steps disappear and look to be covered with snow drift...does it snow in Frisco?
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Update time.

    Late last night I went through both sets of MS Jeffys, took out the best of both sets and put them into one of the old "Library Of Coins" albums. Taking the best coins from both sets and making the nicest set possible was a fun way to spend a couple of hours. The left overs were also put into an album. It is also a nice looking set, just not as nice as the other one.

    The coin sin the best set have a varied look. Some have strong, sharp strikes. Some have weak strikes. Some are toned nicely, a few with rainbow colors. Some have not toned at all. Some have full steps. Most do not. One way or the other, most of the coins have nice eye appeal, particularly under good lighting conditions. Some have great, thick, unbroken original skin (always a favorite of mine). As I mentioned above the 1945P is a DDR.

    The coins with the nicest appearance (very pleasing to the eye for one reason or another) are the 1939D, 1940D, 1941P, 1942D, 1943S, 1944P, 1945D, 1946D, 1946S, 1947D, 1949D, 1950P, 1951P, 1951D, 1952P, 1953S, 1954S, 1955P, 1957P, 1960P and 1961P.

    All in all a fun project.

    Later tonight I will be doing the same with two MS Roosie sets.
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 30,333 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Later tonight I will be doing the same with two MS Roosie sets. >>



    No doubt these are "just" the silver sets.

    Not that there's anything wrong with silver, it's just that I never get to see clad sets (or hear of them).

    It's fun making sets and it's not diminished when making them out of other already complete sets, it's just more brief. image
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
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    mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, uh, any plans to make the undercoins available image??
    mirabela
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cladking: Actually the two MS Roosie sets I have (tonights project) both have some of the early clads in them (pre 1972). I will check them out and keep the best. However, I already have a set of Clad Roosies that I am working on. The include coins I plucked new, from circulation, when I was a kid (9-22) and put into Whitman albums; and more recent circulation finds or nice examples obtained on the cheap as part of bulk acquisitions, from mint sets or from dealers.

    mirabela: I have two sons and part of me wants to keep the two sets of MS Jeffys for them. However, neither son shows any interest in coins so wanting to have two sets to pass on to them some day may be silly (they would probably just spend them or cash them in at the bank). PM me with your want list and maybe I will have something that you are looking for.
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    SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 13,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Update time:

    I fished out a separate set of MS war nickels in a Capital holder I had acquired years ago. I took the best MS set of Jeffys I assempled from the two sets mentioned previously and compared the war nickels in that set with the war nickels in the Capital holder. Some of the war nickels in the Capital holder were far superior to those in the "best" set. Thus I upgraded the best set a second time with some of the war nickels in the Capital holder.

    As a result the "best" set that has emerged is looking better and better. Some of the MS war nickels are very, very nice.

    I also had a great time combining the best of the two Silver Roosie sets into a "best" set earlier this week.

    A fun endeavor all of the way around.

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