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1883-S NGC AU-58 Morgan Dollar -- New vs Original Auction Photo Comparison

StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Welcome to the latest installment of "Guess the Grade"!!

I invite you to guess the grade of this 1883-S Morgan Dollar, and please post your observations and comments about how you arrived at your grade for this coin.

Thanks in advance for your votes in the poll, and also for your posts to keep this thread active and interesting!! image

imageimage

Stuart

Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"

Comments

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    DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Challenging . .

    The subdued luster (photo???) really hides the critical aspect of this coin. I have an MS62 PCGS and the luster pops off the coin, but so do the hits.

    I can't see any wear (pix) . . . but due to what appears to be subdued luster, I'll go with 62. These things are murder to make in 63 or above.

    Drunner
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    JulioJulio Posts: 2,501 ✭
    I'll guess but only if you will reveal the grade. LOL. jws
    image
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    LeianaLeiana Posts: 4,349 ✭
    I'll go with 62 because I do not see any wear in the hair above the eye or on the eagle's breast. The overall lustre is low, otherwise it would probably grade higher. image The surfaces are quite free of marks. I do wonder what happened to the lustre, though.

    -Amanda
    image

    I'm a YN working on a type set!

    My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!

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    GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    au58 or 62. But judging from the photos it is over dipped
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    123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    I'll guess AU-58. Looks like the slightest bid of rub but hard to tell. If I am wrong it will have graded higher.
    image
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    ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    AU-58, because for a condition rarity like this one, the TPGs will find any reason to downgrade the coin. If this were an 1882-S, it might go 62 or 63.
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it helps, I think that the digital image provided is likely a scanned image which typically is very accurate for seeing contact marks but very poor at showing mint luster, as opposed to a digital photograph which depicts mint luster much more accurately. image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    JulioJulio Posts: 2,501 ✭
    The photo/scan looks dull. No points there for eye appeal. Assuming it has more luster I'd grade it 64. jws
    image
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    relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭
    58/62
    image
    My posts viewed image times
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    MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    I agree with the others that the surfaces look dull and a little stripped- possibly a 62......
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the Tuesday afternoon shift... image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    sweetwillietsweetwilliet Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭
    I'm guessing AU58 for the reasons above, they will find any reason to downgrade and keep it out of an ms holder, also I think I may see wear on the hair on the obverse. The reverse looks unc to me. So that's my guess, au58. What are you buying that one for anyway, it's not pl or dmpl (very hard to come by in pl or dmpl).
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    Will’sProoflikes
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    << What are you buying that one for anyway, it's not pl or dmpl (very hard to come by in pl or dmpl). >>

    sweetwilliet: Thanks for your post and your above quoted question. Although I tend to prefer to focus on collecting PL/DMPL Morgan Dollars, I also like Semi-PL Morgans with Cameo Contrast, and always keep my eyes open for attractive semi-key date coins when they become available for the right price. image

    As mentioned in my signature line below, I also collect Type Coins and $20 Gold Pieces.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    orevilleoreville Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU-55, possibly AU-58.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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    KoinDawgKoinDawg Posts: 890
    AU-58 Lacks MS luster. ding on neck
    image Scottish Fold Gold
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    sweetwillietsweetwilliet Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭
    Looking closer, look at the hair above the ear and all up the face, also look at the bottom part of the curl on the tip of the hat, there are a few areas that are darker than the rest, I'll bet that's interpreted as wear. I have a high AU58 PCGS 1897-o that looks very similar to this coin, except a little more luster and more hits. If I tilt it at certain angles in the light, these dark areas show up more prominently at certain angles, and are probably very light wear on the highest points. This coin is probably in the same boat. The reverse still looks MS63 to me. OK, so the AU58 and MS63 averaged out make it a MS 60.5, right??
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    Will’sProoflikes
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    WhizzardWhizzard Posts: 955
    I'll go with 62, but I think she's been dipped to death.
    What do you think, Mr. Bigglesworth?
    image
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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I voted AU58 due to the darker areas, (ciculation marks) in the field areas of the obv and rev. However I'd be the first to say that trying to grade by those pics/scans is impossible and I would'nt go near that auction if it were raw due to the dipped/stripped look in these photos. Is it NGC or ANACS?

    Chris
    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any more people interested in voting to guess the grade, and posting your thoughts before I post the answer??

    I will post the answer shortly after this poast sinks down to page 2...

    Last Chance!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    NumismanicNumismanic Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    MS63
    Don

    U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes

    U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes

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    p8ntp8nt Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭
    From the pictures the coin has the surfaces of a MS65 coin. However, taking into account the lackluster surfaces the coin would be a MS64.

    Now if the pictures aren't accurate or hide marks, then the grade is anyone's guess.
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    techefftecheff Posts: 2,285
    64
    image
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    HTubbsHTubbs Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭
    MS-64image
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    p8ntp8nt Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭
    I just cheated and looked image
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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    I voted au-58.

    It appears to have some rub on the cap and maybe something above the eagle.

    It appears to be a nice coin.
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    constructconstruct Posts: 932
    58.
    The strangest things seem suddenly routine.
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    TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    AU-55 is my guess that I made yesterday.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This 1883-S Morgan Dollar is graded NGC AU-58, which I personally consider a Best Value Grade with high eye appealing coins, because of the steep market price premiums for mint state coins of this issue date.
    • 20 of 54 (37%) of the forum members voted correctly.
    • 48% voted between MS-60-65,
    • and 15% voted below AU-58.
    See Voting Results Below:

    MS-65 or Higher 1 (votes) 1.85 (%)
    MS-64 7 (votes) 12.96 (%)
    MS-63 6 (votes) 11.11 (%)
    MS-62 6 (votes) 11.11 (%)
    MS-61 3 (votes) 5.56 (%)
    MS-60 3 (votes) 5.56 (%)
    AU-58 20 (votes) 37.04 (%)
    AU-55 4 (votes) 7.41 (%)
    AU-53 2 (votes) 3.70 (%)
    AU-50 or Lower 2 (votes) 3.70 (%)

    Thanks very much to all who participated in the poll and who also took the time to post your comments and observations!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Not surprised at all. The TPGs go out of their way to knock down the grade they assign condition rarity Morgans. I still think this coin had a good shot at making 62 or 63 on a "market grading" basis if it were dated one year earlier.
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are some new photos (Top) that I took this evening of my new 1883-S NGC AU-58 Morgan Dollar which I just received today. Please also see the original seller's scanned images (Bottom) for reference.

    She looks even better in person than in the upper set of photos. image What do you think of her??

    New Photos After Receiving Coin
    imageimage

    Original Seller's Auction Photos
    imageimage

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ManOfCoins: Thanks for your post. The coin appears to be virtually mint state from the perspective that there is no apparent wear or luster breaks on the high points when observing it in hand, however there are some very light contact marks which are perhaps indicative of very light circulation.

    If it's not truly mint state, this coin is the best 1883-S slider that I've ever seen. I may bring it with me to tomorrow's Bellaire Coin Show to show it to a few dealer friends of mine to request their opinions. I've seen worse coins in mint state holders...

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    sTONERsTONER Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭
    au 58 loooks great,,image
    toner loner
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kinda shows how pix can screw a seller and favor the buyer; sorta like that place in Dallas.
    theknowitalltroll;
    MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
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    librtyheadlibrtyhead Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭
    The second photo shows a "Stuart" coin! imageYa jus never know.......................
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    morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    I saw the answer first--nevertheless less I'd call it he old grade MS60+, not reallly an au coin.
    morgannut2
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    RickMilauskasRickMilauskas Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭
    Stuart,

    The coin looks even nicer in your pics. The lustre is much more apparent. You can't beat a nice AU58 when it comes to "eye value" for your money.

    I can see though where there may be some hint of wear on the reverse. From what I can see, there may be a bit in the fields between the eagle and the wreath to the right. There also seems to be a slight but of rub on the feathers on the eagle's breast.
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to everyone for your kind words about my new 1883-S NGC AU-58 Morgan Dollar.

    Baj: I agree with you that if one is familiar with the peculiarities of a seller's photos, one can sometimes interpret those photos to your advantage when making a coin purchase.

    Rick: There is no perceptable "rub" or wear on this coin either on the eagle's breast , Liberty's cap or on Liberty's cheek. There are however some contact marks (minor hairline scratches) that are indicative that this coin lightly circulated for a very brief period of time.

    I believe that it has the appearance and resulting market value of an MS-61 to 62 coin, and looks really great in hand!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    orevilleoreville Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely nicer looking than the original pics. I do agree with NGC's grade of AU-58. A pleasant looking coin indeed. A date/mm that is underrecognized.

    I originally thought it ranged between AU-55 and AU-58. I guess I got lucky in my guesses.

    Doesn't Liberty look like she has a slight nose cold? image
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oreville: Thanks for your post and comments about my new 1883-S, which I agree may be under recognized especially in attractive high AU grade.

    I'm going to bring her with me to the Bellaire Coin Show today, to show her around and get some other people's opinions on her.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    AceKAceK Posts: 414
    Wow. The seller cost himself some money with those photos. Whether it's got wear or not, it's a pretty 1883-S and a very nice pick-up.
    image
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    GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    to much rub on the eagle's brest for MS
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GoldenEyeNumismatics: As I mentioned in an earlier post on this same thread...

    There is no perceptable "rub" or wear on this coin either on the eagle's breast, Liberty's cap or on Liberty's cheek. The coin looks even better in person than in either set of photos.

    The coin appears to be virtually mint state from the perspective that there is no apparent wear or luster breaks on the high points when observing it in hand, however there are some very light contact marks (minor hairline scratches) which are perhaps indicative of very light circulation.

    If it's not truly mint state, this coin is the best 1883-S slider that I've ever seen. I brought it with me during today's Bellaire Coin Show to show it to a few dealer friends of mine to request their opinions. They all thought that it was a true "slider", and several recommended that I should consider cracking it out and resubmitting it as a shot mint state coin. I've seen worse coins in mint state holders...

    I believe that it has the appearance and resulting market value of an MS-61 to 62 coin, and looks really great in hand!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    CoxeCoxe Posts: 11,139 ✭


    << <i>to much rub on the eagle's brest for MS >>



    How could you possibly distinguish rub from strike on that image? I see no lustre interruption if that would even be possible in such an image. The breast feathers are consistent with the central striking on the obverse. There is likely some rub on the coin, but I cannot imagine anyone being able to find it on the images.
    Select Rarities -- DMPLs and VAMs
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are new photographs (top images) that I took this evening of my 1883-S NGC AU-58 (Slider) Morgan Dollar previously posted on this forum. Original auction photos reposted (bottom images) for reference.

    1883-S NGC AU-58 (Slider) Morgan Dollar
    image
    image

    Original Seller's Auction Photos
    imageimage

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1883-S NGC AU-58 (Slider) Morgan Dollar

    Manually Color-Balanced
    image

    Photoshop Auto Color-Balanced
    image

    Original Seller's Auction - Scanned Images
    imageimage

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"

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