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WSJ: Rave review for the new book "DOUBLE EAGLE" by Alison Frankel!

saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
It can be read in today, Saturday's 5/12/06, edition of the Wall Street Journal....they loved the book!

This is the best book written about the history of Teddy Roosevelt's dream quest to have a gold coin worthy of the United States, both aesthetically and symbolically, the Saint Gauden's Double Eagle. It follows the history of the design and concept of coin and emerges as is the best accounting of the shenanigans and scandal regarding the 1933 Saint's with amazing detail and accuracy.

Unlike Steven Tripp's book, this was written much more in the mindset of collectors. I found that she was able to put as much information on one page as Tripp would in 3 or 4 pages. She left the fluff at home. image It reads fast, it's historically accurate and you can feel her newly formed fascination and admiration for the coins and the hobby. She shows the driving potential to become one of us, and if this book sells well, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ms. Frankel bidding on rare gold coins in an auction. image

I was contacted by Alison early in her research ( I had no idea who she was), and was more than happy to answer her hundreds of questions about what makes me/us tick when it comes to collecting. She "got it" so quickly that her questions were almost therapeutic in nature; it was like talking to a coin shrink! I introduced her to a number of key longtime players like David Akers and Steve Duckor, and she was already on the trail of many others herself. I recall rescuing a very distressed looking Ms. Frankel from a table outside the FUN show, seemingly hostage to Jay Parrino. image She looked a bit unnerved so I sat down and deflected Jay's ego a little because he knew that I was more knowledgeable than his 'reporter'.

All in all, Alison's book is far more succinct that others, more "coin" oriented rather than novel-like, and a must read for the people who love this obsessive compulsive thing we do. Everyone that met and talked to Alison was touched by her sincere interest and enthusiasm. I have no doubt that's why she got to the real heart of what turns us on.

Congratulations to Alison Frankel. image



(I think the book will be available at Amazon on Monday.......and NO....I have no financial interest in this at all. Just pride and kudos for my friend.)
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Comments

  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a great read! I just added it to my Amazon.com wish list. Amazon says it ships in 24 hours.
    Feel free to send it to me! image

    KJ

  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    The downtown NYC Borders store had the book on display this past Thursday - it looks pretty good.

    I liked the way Tripp followed the story of the inner workings of the Mint, how the coins were stored and accounted for, etc.

    Does she cover this territory as well?

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I procured an advance copy on ebay, based on Jay's earlier recommendation, and I loved it. I learned quite a lot about coin collecting, 20th century numismatics, King Farouk, and coins and the law. It was a very enjoyable read, and I highly recommend it--for all coin collectors.
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    she covered everything. I think Tripp went a little too far with his tallying of each and every coin, and Alison covers the same content with less verbage. She certainly gave yu a great picture of how the mint works in detail.
    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the WSJ review:

    The Mad Hunt for a Coin Worth Millions
    How FDR's gold ban created a collectors' treasure
    By JASON GOODWIN
    May 13, 2006; Page P8

    Double Eagle
    By Alison Frankel
    Norton, 323 pages, $25.95

    "Money," wrote the American critic Edmund Wilson, "is for us a medium, a condition of life, like air." In the 19th century, the ark of the Republic surged across the face of the U.S. on a sea of paper bills and easy credit. That was grand finance. Day to day, right up to the 1850s, ordinary folk got by largely on a diet of foreign coins, shinplaster, scrip and traders' tokens.
    [Double Eagle]

    Come the plenitudes of the Gilded Age, Teddy Roosevelt demanded a currency that would suit the quasi-imperium that America had become, and he looked back to models of coinage in ancient Greece and Rome. So he arm-twisted the greatest living American sculptor, Augustus Saint-Gaudens, into designing what many people believed was the most beautiful coin ever made -- the $20 double eagle.

    The coin was minted every year until 1933, when the other Roosevelt broke with the gold standard and made it illegal to hold gold that wasn't worked into something decorative or rare. The gold was gone, but bills were as good as gold: The president said so. Earnest citizens turned up at the mint to offload eye-watering stores of gold in exchange for bills. For a few weeks in 1933 the mint in Philadelphia carried on calmly producing gold eagles and double eagles that nobody would ever be allowed to spend, but they never entered circulation, and in 1937 all 445,500 of them were melted down again -- except for two specimens reserved for the Smithsonian.

    To possess the 1933 double eagle, then, should have been, "like catching a ride on a unicorn," in Alison Frankel's phrase. But in the tiny, incestuous world of the numismatist, fairy tales were coming true: It turned out that more than a few double eagles had survived and were now nesting in private hands.

    It is astonishing to realize that, in the aftermath of World War II -- with the Iron Curtain ringing down across Europe and the Korean War invoking the specter of immediate atomic annihilation -- the U.S. Secret Service was able to devote considerable energies to the business of locating a sprinkling of golden coins that were, in its opinion, the stolen property of the U.S. Mint.

    Ever since the first 1933 double eagle came up for public auction in 1944, the Secret Service had been tracking down these coins on the mint's behalf. What aroused the Secret Service's interest was an innocuous question from a member of the public who, having learned of the coming auction, was curious to know in advance how many 1933 double eagles had been released by the mint. The answer, as far as anyone could discover, was: none. Still, they were out there.
    [Double]
    Egypt's King Farouk gave up the coin in 1952. Then the pursuit began.

    One by one, errant double eagles were rounded up and returned to the fold, to be melted down into bullion. Collectors, deprived of their treasures, squealed and sued. Dealers kept their mouths shut until the G-men browbeat them to reveal their sources. Investigations were launched, depositions taken, legal counsel sought. By the mint's reckoning, only one coin had escaped the Secret Service dragnet -- because in 1944 the U.S. Treasury itself had inexplicably approved its export to King Farouk ("the ruler of Egypt and an ardent coin collector," Ms. Frankel writes). When Farouk abdicated under pressure in 1952, he was forced to leave behind his accumulated loot, including the 1933 double eagle. That's when the angling and scheming to possess the coin began in earnest.

    Ms. Frankel steers her reader through a world of coin fairs, backroom deals, gossip and meticulous scholarship. The result is a thriller-like narrative that tacks swiftly back and forth among the principal players.

    We meet dubious dealers -- "a squat, balding redhead who wore thick-rimmed glasses, cheap suits, and a perpetual sneer" -- and obsessive collectors. There is the flamboyant coin dealer Jay Parrino, "a tough-guy contestant in coin-dealing's long-running pageant of self-aggrandizement," and his would-be nemesis, Jack Moore, a former truck driver who prods the Secret Service into a double-eagle sting operation but then ends up mired in his own legal troubles. (If he had just taken his wife's advice and stayed away from the double-eagle business, Mr. Moore told the author, "none of it would have ever happened.") We feel Ms. Frankel's wary attraction for the British coin dealer Stephen Fenton ("so engaging, so full of amusing stories told with a self-deprecating, eye-crinkling smile"). His moment of numismatic stardom -- he manages to buy the Farouk double eagle -- turns horribly sour when he is pulled into the Secret Service sting staged at the Waldorf-Astoria hotel in New York. We follow the duel played out between the federal prosecutor assigned to the case and Mr. Fenton's attorney, who argues that his client was entirely within his rights to sell the Farouk coin. The book builds toward a gripping -- and unexpected -- close.

    Above all, Ms. Frankel immerses her reader in the Florentine world of dealers and collectors, the interplay of rivalry, passion and mutual trust that animates the tiny handful of people -- almost all of them men -- for whom a Brasher doubloon or an Indian head nickel matters more than anything else in the world. Ms. Frankel speculates on the psychology of collectors for whom one purchase is only a step toward the next. Some collectors, as she notes, are prepared to feed their habit to the point of ruin -- though few quite as extravagantly as King Farouk, whose collecting mania stuffed palaces with trash and treasure and contributed to his fall.

    Ms. Frankel builds her story with a sure touch. At the end, we find the double eagle still enveloped in a mist of legal doubts, trailing the very image of slippery value that Teddy Roosevelt had been eager to banish from U.S. currency when he commissioned it. The 1933 double eagle still may not be legal to own. And what, you might ask, is it really worth? Seven million dollars -- or 10 years in jail?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the acknowledgements:

    "Jay Brahin, who earned entry into the fraternity of Saint-Gaudens double eagle collectors with his keen eye and his self-diagnosed obsessive-compulsive disorder, taught me how the coin world really works and allowed me to share the excitement of building his brilliant Saints set. Without Jay's help and friendship, I would never have understood the passion and the drive of coin collectors. If I could, I'd by Brahin an MS-66 1927-D--that's the magnitude of my debt to him."

    Gee, Jay, does Mrs. SaintGuru know about this? image
  • Just ordered it on Amazon.

    Thanks for the recomendation guys.

    JMimage
  • What a review coming out of the WSJ of all places!!!

    I'm actually going to pick up a copy. Certainly piqued my interest.

    Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com

  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536


    << <i>Ever since the first 1933 double eagle came up for public auction in 1944, >>


    Was the 1944 auction the first time a 33 double eagle was up for auction? I know they had been openly bought, sold and publicly advertised since at least 1936. But I don't know if one had been auctioned before.
  • XpipedreamRXpipedreamR Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
    I flipped through this book in Barnes and Noble last week. I looked for saintguru's name in the index, but it wasn't there image

    And then, cheapness prevailed imageimage
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    There are people who write coin books, other than QDB?

    image
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    There were over a dozen 1933's sold in the late 30's early 40's, the first in 1937. They were even advertized, but no one really knew that were illegal. It was noticed by a treasury official, if I recall, which started a Secret Service investigation. They eventually tracked down just about every one.....of course Izzy had 10 in his safe deposit box. image

    They were stolen...I KNEW that's where the ofen rumored one's would be!
    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    acknowledgements. image
    image
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    Conder101:

    According to Tripp's book, the Stack's auction of the Flanagan collection in 1944 was the first time a 1933 double eagle had appeared at public auction. Tripp quotes the auction catalog:

    "Although this is the first one that ever came up in any public auction and there is not a price set on this in the standard catalog we know that 8 or ten of the pieces were sold privately from $1000 to $2200."

    Stack's advertised the auction heavily, which attracted the attention of Ernest Kehr, the stamp and coin editor of the New York Herald Tribune, who enquired of the Mint how many 1933 double eagles had been issued.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    I met Ms. Frankel at the sale of the John Ford library in Riverside, CA -- a pretty obscure place for a non-numismatist to pop up! I was impressed with that.

    While I haven't read her book yet, David Tripp's book is a very satisfying page turner. He did excellent research, understood the historical context of the Secret Service pursuit, and appropriately dramatized the story without sensationalizing it. It's a very worthwhile read.

    It sort of makes you wonder -- what other numismatic tales could be made into crowd-pleasing books in a similar way?
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    "The Blay Sperber Clash: War And Peace In The Coin World"

    "Making Something From Nothing" by Russ and Mad Marty

    "Isn't Life Grand?" by Justhavingfun

    "I Ask The Questions!" by Andy Lustig

    image



    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    DaveG

    That was indeed what got the Feds involved in the inquiry and subsequent seizure of the coins that had been sold. It should be pointed out again, that prior to that the dealers did not knew they were illegal. Izzy Switt, an unscrupulous and shady coin dealer in South Philadelphia had been getting the 1933's from James McCann, the corrupt and greedy cashier at the Philadelphia Mint. McCann, who had secretly sold these to Switt, certainly was aware that these coins were unissued and probably illegal to own, since he reported to the Treasury that all the bags of 1933's had been melted into gold bars on March 18, 1937. However on February 16 Switt sold the first 1933 coin to James McCallister for $500! Switt dribbled them out one or two at a time to dealers and was certainly aware that these were not legal tender. The Secret Service was able to trace about 14-16 (I don't recall the exact number) of these from these dealers who on the whole were quite cooperative. Izzy sandbagged the Secret Service better than anyone they investigated, and in fact, beat them, since his family turned in 10 coins last year to be declared legal!

    This will be an interesting case since the Treasury mandated that the Farouk specimen would be the only 1933 Saint to be monetized and legally owned, thereby making any additional coins that may turn up illegal. The Switt family is contesting this and the coin world is watching.

    I think they are going to have a hell of an uphill battle. image We shall see!
    image
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they are going to have a hell of an uphill battle.

    I think that one way or another the numismatic community will be bidding on 10 1933's. image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    I am not of that belief. I think at best, they will keep most as "national treasures" and sell the rest retaining the proceeds.
    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think that one way or another the numismatic community will be bidding on 10 1933's.

    That's my belief. Maybe not all ten, but at least seven or eight.
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    << think that one way or another the numismatic community will be bidding on 10 1933's.>>

    Wow TDN, I am surprised at your statement. Would not the government have to LEGALIZE them in order to "release" them for the purchasing public??? Remember, the Farouk coin WAS THE ONLY 1933 $20 RELEASED by the mint. (in hindsite, by accident and ignorance).

    I believe you will only these in the Smithsonian vaults.

    Hey Jay, I thought you disagreed with me at dinner that they were stolen??? imageimage

    Too much red wine at the time???image
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    No Lloyd. I always maintained that they were stolen. SD and I always joke about Izzy and the 33's. He would have stolen the crown jewels if he had an "in". image

    There's some pretty leading evidence that he somehow got his grubby fingers on a BAG of 1929's and got a tip that the Feds were coming after him (this was after the Gold Act of 1933)...and something about he and his brother frantically trying to melt them down in the basement of Izzy's dirty little shop....makes me laugh really hard picturing that.

    You have to know what these little shops in S. Philly are like to "get" Izzy Switt! I'd be scared to shake his hand for fear that my watch would disappear.

    image
    image
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,164 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><< think that one way or another the numismatic community will be bidding on 10 1933's.>>

    Wow TDN, I am surprised at your statement. Would not the government have to LEGALIZE them in order to "release" them for the purchasing public??? Remember, the Farouk coin WAS THE ONLY 1933 $20 RELEASED by the mint. (in hindsite, by accident and ignorance). >>



    The term is 'monetize' and it's a fancy smancy word made up by the Feds to cover their butts. Nowhere was it defined by the Government... until the 1933 fiasco came along.
  • slumlord98slumlord98 Posts: 1,180
    Did anyone else read in a recent QDB column where he said ~ 'Both Bob Julian and I believe that the '33 double eagles are legal to own' ? I wonder what he knows about this that others don't.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both Tripp's and Alison's book are great reads. They are both careful researchers and good writers.

    Alison pointed me to the Secret Service gold investigation files in the National Archvies, which is yielding much fruit on a couple (non-related) projects I'm working on.

    What with the twists and turns of the 1933 $20, I wouldn't be surprised to see a third book in the future!
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,164 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Did anyone else read in a recent QDB column where he said ~ 'Both Bob Julian and I believe that the '33 double eagles are legal to own' ? I wonder what he knows about this that others don't. >>



    I believe there was about a 2 week window where the coins could have been purchased legally at the Teller Window in the Mint. If true, it blows the 'theft' theory all to heck....
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    The 1933's were NEVER in the teller's window. The Gold Act was already in effect and even though they were minting the coins, NO GOLD was leaving the mint as of March 1933. McCann was absolutely responsible for filching the coins for Switt and he was a crooked guy. He had a lot of money for a fancy clerk....which ironically he lost in the stock market.


    He reported in March 1933 that all the mintage was melted into bars...repeat. He knew that there were about 25 coins that weren't "quite" 1933's in the melt.
    image
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    <<LEGALIZE>>

    I meant to say LEGAL TENDER
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Did anyone else read in a recent QDB column where he said ~ 'Both Bob Julian and I believe that the '33 double eagles are legal to own' ? I wonder what he knows about this that others don't. >>



    With all respect to QDB and Julian, the feds don't really care what they think or know. The position of the federal gov't is what it is (right or wrong), and they will not budge until someone has the cajones to mount a very expensive legal challenge. Even then the outcome is no sure thing.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The 1933's were NEVER in the teller's window. The Gold Act was already in effect and even though they were minting the coins, NO GOLD was leaving the mint as of March 1933. McCann was absolutely responsible for filcj=hing the coins for Switt and he was a crooked guy. He had a lot of money for a fancy clerk....which ironically he lost in the stock market.


    During that window of opportunity mentioned above, the Mint could not pay out gold for paper, which would have decreased the amount of gold owned by the United States, but it could exchange gold for gold, which would not decrease the amount of gold owned by the United States.

    At least one 1933 $10 was obtained via such a legal exchange of gold for gold, which is why the Mint does not challenge the legality of 1933 $10's. Bob Julian and I have both said in print that during the window of opportunity one or more people might theoretically have obtained one or more 1933 $20 by exchanging gold for gold.

    The Mint says that it has no record of such an exchange, so therefore it cannot have happened. This is not a valid defense on their part. Years ago I met a lady who had been born in 1921, and who had been given a 1921 Double Eagle by her uncle, one of the two Superintendents to serve at the Philadelphia Mint in that year. I saw the coin. It exists. Did her uncle have any trouble getting a 1921 Saint, even though none were ever shipped to the Federal Reserve? I doubt it. If you had enough clout, you could get stuff and get it legally.

    Tom D.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jpkinlajpkinla Posts: 822 ✭✭✭
    A good read....

    Saintguru, you have become a celebrity!

    image
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    During that window of opportunity mentioned above, the Mint could not pay out gold for paper, which would have decreased the amount of gold owned by the United States, but it could exchange gold for gold, which would not decrease the amount of gold owned by the United States.

    At least one 1933 $10 was obtained via such a legal exchange of gold for gold, which is why the Mint does not challenge the legality of 1933 $10's. Bob Julian and I have both said in print that during the window of opportunity one or more people might theoretically have obtained one or more 1933 $20 by exchanging gold for gold.

    The Mint says that it has no record of such an exchange, so therefore it cannot have happened. This is not a valid defense on their part. Years ago I met a lady who had been born in 1921, and who had been given a 1921 Double Eagle by her uncle, one of the two Superintendents to serve at the Philadelphia Mint in that year. I saw the coin. It exists. Did her uncle have any trouble getting a 1921 Saint, even though none were ever shipped to the Federal Reserve? I doubt it. If you had enough clout, you could get stuff and get it legally.


    Bingo.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Feds never admit that they are wrong.

    image
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    Captain...I woud like to know where you saw that any 1933's were exchanged at the cashier's window. The God Act had already been passed, and the 1933's were only available for the routine assay. Some speculate that a few were "lost" during that time, but I have not read anywhere that the Mint released any for exchange.

    The exchange service was a legitimate way to obtain new coins, but I haven't seen where any 33's were authorized.

    Just imagine this...at one point the mint was offering to collectors 1924-S, 1925-S, 1927-S, 1927-D coins right from the presses for $20.18 including shipping!!!
    image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Does Alison Frankel want to collect Lincoln Cents ?

    I'll bet there are more 1933 Double Eagles.

    At $7,000,000 it is not a good deal

    My take is it is a $700,000 coin.

    Stewart
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    Oreville:

    They knew the 55 DD was an error, and the mint director, after finding out the error cents were mixed with the non-errors, chose to release them vs. melting due to demand. Bad example.

    I have read part of the book, and Tony Terranova's quote on why he chose not to buy one when he had the chance, cracked me up. It is so Tony...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    <<Does Alison Frankel want to collect Lincoln cents??>>

    No.

    <<At $7,000,000 it is not a good deal>>

    The bidders were not worried whether it was a good deal or not.image Is buying the JUDD 1997 Pattern a good deal at $10,000,000??? Why won't the owner sell it??

    The mystique, the aura, the risk and the story make for a higher market value. Knowing what I know today of the others, I'd still pay $7,000,000 for it, if I had it. Why will the 1913 Liberty Nickel always be worth 40 times more than say, the 1958 DD cent, even though the cent is rarer???

    Some coins, just the nostalgia and ego of owning it, is worth the price.

    Stewart, you need to get your story out about the 1958 if you want to, you know, get that coin into the ballgame.. image
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My take is it is a $700,000 coin.

    When the 10 become legal and the other half a dozen or so come out of the woodwork, they'll still go for well over $1.5M each.... probably closer to $3M than $2M.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The more interesting question - how much does the government have to pay the current owner to settle? IIRC, the current owner has some guarantee that the government will not legalize additional examples. Whatever this amount is, it has to be substantially less than the sale price of the remaining coins. With TDNs number, the government could make $15M from the sale, less what they pay the Switts, less what they pay the current owner. I'm thinking that's kind of a chancy proposition all around.
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    You'll never get to privately own one of the 10...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Lloyd. I hate to, but I do. image

    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    ttt for the people with jobs. image
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  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    tttimage
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  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just received my hardcover copy from Amazon. Will you autograph it for me, Jay? image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Captain...I woud like to know where you saw that any 1933's were exchanged at the cashier's window. The God Act had already been passed, and the 1933's were only available for the routine assay. Some speculate that a few were "lost" during that time, but I have not read anywhere that the Mint released any for exchange.

    The exchange service was a legitimate way to obtain new coins, but I haven't seen where any 33's were authorized.

    Just imagine this...at one point the mint was offering to collectors 1924-S, 1925-S, 1927-S, 1927-D coins right from the presses for $20.18 including shipping!!! >>



    I never said that I had any documentation that proved that any person legally exchanged an older $20 gold piece for a 1933 $20 gold piece. What I said was that there was a window of opportunity when a person could have legally made such an exchange.

    The Mint says that it has no record of such an exchange, so therefore no such an exchange could have taken place. I respectfully disagree with them. The Mint has no record of any Class II or Class III 1804 Dollars having been struck, but they exist. The Mint has no record of an 1873-CC No Arrows Dime having been paid out, but one exists. The Mint has no records of any 1913 Liberty Head nickels being struck, but they exist. The Mint has no records of any 1964-D Peace Dollars being paid out, but two different people have told me that they were.

    Man-made records are necessarily fallible. The absence of a record that an event happened is not proof that the event did not happen.

    Tom DeLorey
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭
    I need to pick up this book....

    "Illegal Tender" is a sweet read, fastest I think I have ever read a book.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    Man-made records are necessarily fallible. The absence of a record that an event happened is not proof that the event did not happen.

    You're close but still on the wrong side of the fence. Yes, the window was there. But the 33's were stolen by McCann. That was a "private window" for Izzy Switt. If you read the book, you'll see that NcCann had a very large amount of money in the stock market in the late 30's, which of course, he lost. He made a measly salary and this was his bribe money.

    The cashier's window never LEGALLY exchanged or issued any 1933 Saints. It was absolutely prohibited and none were made available.
    image
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭
    I am surprised that a collector of Saints would be against them becoming available to own.....

    As a collector I would like them to be available to own.....

    It would be a sad thing if these coins where melted or locked away never to be seen again.....

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,508 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Man-made records are necessarily fallible. The absence of a record that an event happened is not proof that the event did not happen.

    You're close but still on the wrong side of the fence. Yes, the window was there. But the 33's were stolen by McCann. That was a "private window" for Izzy Switt. If you read the book, you'll see that NcCann had a very large amount of money in the stock market in the late 30's, which of course, he lost. He made a measly salary and this was his bribe money.

    The cashier's window never LEGALLY exchanged or issued any 1933 Saints. It was absolutely prohibited and none were made available. >>



    I agree that the ten or so pieces sold in the late 1930s AND the ten pieces recently surrended by Switt's daughter were taken by McCann and fenced by Switt. Whether they were outright "stolen" and not replaced or unlawfully exchanged for an equal number of older $20 gold pieces after the legal window of opportunity to do so may never be known.

    However, I still maintain that there was a legal window of opportunity for a citizen to exchange an older $20 gold piece for a 1933 $20 gold piece in 1933. The Treasury says it did not happen because to admit that it could have happened weakens their holy crusade against the McCann-Switt coins (and it is amazing how much time and effort they put into it). Perhaps nobody ever did make such an exchange. However, we do not know with absolute certainty that nobody ever did.

    The Treasury used to seize off-metal errors, such as a cent on a dime planchet, because, in their words, "we never issued such a coin," even though many such coins lawfully left the Mint in sealed bags. The Treasury does what it wants to. I remember when we had what looked to be a 1977/6 cent in at Coin World, and we sent it to the Mint, with the owner's permission, after the Director of the Mint herself personally promised our Editor that the coin would be returned NO MATTER WHAT! The Mint declared the overdate to be genuine, but then, after we printed the story and publicity about it spread, the Mint changed its mind, declared the coin altered and refused to return it to us.

    Tom DeLorey
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tom---Wasn't the 1977/6 cent later determined to be a counterfeit?


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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