$16 shipping on a $2,500 purchase is not bad because insurance costs that much. However I would think the seller of that coin could afford to ship it for free.
I haven't seen this cert before. R&I knows very well how to submit coins to PCGS and NGC.
That's my guess as well, that these were pre-PCGS.
Similar to the David Hall "certified" flips from the early eighties.
Trouble is, 1)grading standards have changed since then, and 2) they were either unsealed or (in the case of the D.H. certified flips heat sealed with the words DAVID HALL embossed in the seal), and the seal would frequently not hold up well over time, particularly on larger coins.
Edited to add: I once had a $20 Saint in a DH flip that "unsealed" in the mail. I sent it back to DH to get resealed and they returned it to me still unsealed with absolutely no explanation.
The coin xpipe linked does not appear to be sealed, so of course the old switcheroo is another problem.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
That's not even in a holder. It is just a coin and a dealers flip insert. Nether one is sealed in a holder or flip. There is no way to know if those two even go together. So this isn't even as good as the pre-slab David Hall holders.
First time I have ever seen anything like that from R&I - didn't know they did that sort of thing that long ago.
I do remember the Rick Tomaska had a "signature series" that were PCI graded about 10-15 years ago. I think there were three levels of cameo and they were in special holders with special inserts. Those were in the days when PCI was relatively strict and not overgraded as they are today. I haven't seen one of those holders for years - wish I would have kept the one I had for historical purposes.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
The PCI Signature series didn't last long (about two months) because PCI was supposd to send the coins to the various experts for examination, but instead was just applying the signatures to coins that the experts HADN'T seen. Once they found out all the experts publicly withdrew from the program.
I do have one or two of them. They are VERY hard to come by.
I've not seen that type of holder however, the insert should give you some tracking information, i.e. ANA member, phone number, etc. My question is ... do you think it is an MS66 ? Grading standards are much different as someone already said, and it looks like a STEAL of price with five hours left, unless it only makes 65 FBL. I have found over time and a short time, too.... Most claims with regards to condition or grade on EBAY are a universe away from the stringent standards of PCGS, yet people continue to BUY into anything in plastic. Also as previously noted, this coin is not even slabbed. It is a beautiful specimen, nonetheless. It's worth what one is willing to pay and that is my take on it . Would suck to have it come back body bagged with PVC damage or something like that , too.
<< <i>..........i dunno' if he grades/slabs coins ;
but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge ! >>
We need details. Was it in the same brand of slab? Was it the same grade? Was it the same coin? What did you do about it? Do you think it was an honest mistake or was he trying to scam you?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>..........i dunno' if he grades/slabs coins ;
but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge ! >>
We need details. Was it in the same brand of slab? Was it the same grade? Was it the same coin? What did you do about it? Do you think it was an honest mistake or was he trying to scam you? >>
Zounds to me like Mr Tomaska tried for an upgrade with your coin!
Pretty dang unethical!
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
I would like to buy some real nice Franklins . But posts like this scare me . Mr. Tomaska has been in business a long time , I would think if he were so bad -he would have gone out of business long ago .
When one works off of what may well be the largest profit margin/largest markup in the industry, all you need are a few regular "suckers" to stay in business.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
Everyone forms their own opinions , but what disturbs me the most is many comments that this dealer is very bad when it comes to buying back coins he has sold. As a buyer, I must believe in my dealers integrity and I must know if offered; the seller would have a firm buy-back price .
I like looking at the cameo proof and SMS coins R&I has in its display cases at coin shows. Very high quality coins IMHO.
However, I prefer looking for these coins raw in proof sets and SMS sets and paying bid or even less than bid for the sets. Cherrypicking in other words. The thrill is in the hunt and in the finding of beautiful coins for modest money.
For those who want to have someone else find and slab these coins so that all they have to do is click their mouse to purchase a coin from a dealer's inventory (R&I for example) and wait for the coin to be delivered, more power to you. I would rather pay the prices asked for slabbed examples of these coins.
XpipedreamR
Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
Comments
Russ, NCNE
I haven't seen this cert before. R&I knows very well how to submit coins to PCGS and NGC.
Tomaska sells slabs today.
Similar to the David Hall "certified" flips from the early eighties.
Trouble is, 1)grading standards have changed since then, and 2) they were either unsealed or (in the case of the D.H. certified flips heat sealed with the words DAVID HALL embossed in the seal), and the seal would frequently not hold up well over time, particularly on larger coins.
Edited to add: I once had a $20 Saint in a DH flip that "unsealed" in the mail. I sent it back to DH to get resealed and they returned it to me still unsealed with absolutely no explanation.
The coin xpipe linked does not appear to be sealed, so of course the old switcheroo is another problem.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
I do remember the Rick Tomaska had a "signature series" that were PCI graded about 10-15 years ago. I think there were three levels of cameo and they were in special holders with special inserts. Those were in the days when PCI was relatively strict and not overgraded as they are today. I haven't seen one of those holders for years - wish I would have kept the one I had for historical purposes.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I do have one or two of them. They are VERY hard to come by.
<< <i>I do remember the Rick Tomaska had a "signature series" that were PCI graded about 10-15 years ago. >>
I had a couple of SMS Kennedys in those slabs.
Russ, NCNE
but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge !
I have found over time and a short time, too.... Most claims with regards to condition or grade on EBAY are a universe away from the stringent standards of PCGS, yet people continue to BUY into anything in plastic. Also as previously noted, this coin is not even slabbed. It is a beautiful specimen, nonetheless. It's worth what one is willing to pay and that is my take on it
Would suck to have it come back body bagged with PVC damage or something like that , too.
<< <i>..........i dunno' if he grades/slabs coins ;
but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge ! >>
We need details. Was it in the same brand of slab? Was it the same grade? Was it the same coin? What did you do about it? Do you think it was an honest mistake or was he trying to scam you?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>..........i dunno' if he grades/slabs coins ;
but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge ! >>
We need details. Was it in the same brand of slab? Was it the same grade? Was it the same coin? What did you do about it? Do you think it was an honest mistake or was he trying to scam you? >>
Zounds to me like Mr Tomaska tried for an upgrade with your coin!
Pretty dang unethical!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
here's the details:
he did not try to scam me , he just sent the coin into NGC to see if it would have FBL'd........... it did not .
Point being , he did this without my consent or knowledge .
There is a current thread that mirrors this "hypothetical" transaction ;
in fact i sent him the coin @ asking price of 1500$ ; I think it reasonable to expect either 1500 $ from him or the coin back -
NOT in a diffrent holder then it was sent to him in !
If "we" think that it's O.K to crack out a clients coin thats on consignment without the clients consent then tell me why .
The coin was a Pop. 1 at the time ; "hypotheticly " the coin could have been altered, doctored, fingerprinted,etc.....
<< <i>..... O.K "we" -
here's the details:
he did not try to scam me , he just sent the coin into NGC to see if it would have FBL'd........... it did not .
Point being , he did this without my consent or knowledge .
There is a current thread that mirrors this "hypothetical" transaction ;
in fact i sent him the coin @ asking price of 1500$ ; I think it reasonable to expect either 1500 $ from him or the coin back -
NOT in a diffrent holder then it was sent to him in !
If "we" think that it's O.K to crack out a clients coin thats on consignment without the clients consent then tell me why .
The coin was a Pop. 1 at the time ; "hypotheticly " the coin could have been altered, doctored, fingerprinted,etc..... >>
...Not to mention adding "1" to the Pop numbers which could decrease the price of the coin
<< <i>Based on past experience, I would not do business with that seller.
Russ, NCNE >>
............what ever happened to R & I 's ebay type auction service ??
<< <i>.........so who buy`s from R & I ?? >>
I bought this Frankie from them. I also get their newsletter on Cameo Coinage which I feel is good info.
<< <i> but i once sent him a 50-D ngc MS-66 Franklin for his offer , pop 1 or 2 @ the time.
He returned it to me a month later
IN A COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HOLDER !!!!
Without my consent or knowledge ! >>
Certainly he would have accepted your offer and actually paid accordingly after informing you that the designation review had been successful, right?
I am sure he would have told me the coin was re-designated ,
and then he would have offered me far more out of the goodness of his heart .
He` just that kinda guy ; he`d give me the shirt off his back if I asked for it .
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
However, I prefer looking for these coins raw in proof sets and SMS sets and paying bid or even less than bid for the sets. Cherrypicking in other words. The thrill is in the hunt and in the finding of beautiful coins for modest money.
For those who want to have someone else find and slab these coins so that all they have to do is click their mouse to purchase a coin from a dealer's inventory (R&I for example) and wait for the coin to be delivered, more power to you. I would rather pay the prices asked for slabbed examples of these coins.