Grading Barber halves and a full LIBERTY

veryfine

I know the Barber specialists will have clear, concise answers to this one, so here goes:
I have noticed that Barber halves and for that matter, Barber coins in general, are often encapsulated as VF without a full LIBERTY on the headband. Is this a new trend? Of course, certain issues are struck better than others, but, it has always been my understanding that a full LIBERTY, with every letter completely visible, is a MUST to achieve the grade of VF. Keep in mind that I have personally seen such coins in the top grading company holders. The PCGS grading guide does state that there are other factors that are more reliable in determining these grades than the traditional full LIBERTY, yet I know that many of us still demand this of a VF coin.
I saw a really nice 1897-s Barber half with a full bold wreath, some hair detail above the forehead and nice eagle feathers on the reverse, but LIBERTY was somewhat weak in spots. The coin was encapsulated with a grade of VF-35. If not for the other bold detail, this coin would grade no higher than a Fine-12.
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? IS A COMPLETE LIBERTY AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR THIS GRADE OR IS THERE SOME ROOM ACCOUNTING FOR STRIKE, HUB DIFFERENCES OR OTHER FACTORS?

Barberman55

I would think that a VF-35, "S" mintmark Barber half, would have a complete "Liberty" in the headband. I see plenty of VF-20, Barber halves, with the bottom of "BER" being a tad weak, but not VF-35's, especially from a mint not noted for weak strikes. Maybe the TPG service was a little generous since the 97-s is considered a key date for the Barber half series.

boyhowdy

Here is a link with some great pix.

http://members.tripod.com/~RPHolder/GradingBarberHalves.html

Steve

DNADave

link

TheRaven

In my humble opinion, unless there is some issue, I would say yes.....

ziggy29

<< <i>Here is a link with some great pix.

http://members.tripod.com/~RPHolder/GradingBarberHalves.html >>

Just went there. F-18???

Dog97

Giving bonus grade points for historically weakly struck coins is Market Grading.
veryfine, I'm an old hardcore tech grader and the ANA standards are my standards too, but you are even stricter than I because I require a full LIBERTY for only for the FINE grade, not the VF. But I agree with having a full band for VF; STRIKE, HUB DIFFERENCES OR OTHER FACTORS be dammed.
But I'm an old dinosaur & won't conform to the flim-flam whims of the "market" just so a dealer can squeeze more $$ from a coin.

veryfine

Thanks Steve and DNADave.
That site has great detailed pictures. The 1897-s I saw had VF detail but the LIBERTY on the headband was more like a F-15. Interesting.

veryfine

<< <i>

<< <i>Here is a link with some great pix.

http://members.tripod.com/~RPHolder/GradingBarberHalves.html >>

Just went there. F-18??? >>


Yes, thanks for the link. Seems like most of you agree that it's a great source for grading Barber halves. F-18 is a weird grade and I wonder if any grading service recognizes this.

dorkkarl

<< <i>have noticed that Barber halves and for that matter, Barber coins in general, are often encapsulated as VF without a full LIBERTY on the headband. Is this a new trend? >>

welcome to the world of plastic

stick to YOUR grading standards - it sounds like you know what the he11 your doing.

K S

maddogale

dog & dorkkarl........