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Are roosies really that unpopular?
Dennis88
Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
Three days ago, I placed in the BST forum here a for sale thread for 2 registry clad roosies.
In 3 days, I haven't received a SINGLE PM or post about it, for the first time I offer something on the BST forum. That really does surprise me, as I think the price is good enough for most collectors.
That raises a question to me, are (Clad) Roosies really that unpopular, or is it just because it's summer time?
I know the ANA is atm, but I'm sure there will be many collectors at home....
Dennis
PS this is not a BST thread, just a question if these coins are really that unpopular
In 3 days, I haven't received a SINGLE PM or post about it, for the first time I offer something on the BST forum. That really does surprise me, as I think the price is good enough for most collectors.
That raises a question to me, are (Clad) Roosies really that unpopular, or is it just because it's summer time?
I know the ANA is atm, but I'm sure there will be many collectors at home....
Dennis
PS this is not a BST thread, just a question if these coins are really that unpopular
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(when they're made out of silver
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can't speak for anyone else, but I for one have NO interest in clad coins..
I'd not be a buyer of your dimes for even a dollar each.
sorry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Yes, they are unpopular. I couldn't sell one of these at a local show in a million years. Frankies and Ikes can fall into that category as well. Every once in a while at a medium sized regional show, someone may ask about a proof Frankie, but I don't hold my breath waiting.
I think the market for these things is almost exclusively via the Internet, and the next time I'm bored and send in some decent toned examples that look FB, I'm just shipping them to TT so I don't have to bother with them.
There's not one tough date in the series, and the coins are as ugly as.........well, an Ike.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I think the coin where I'm after has to wait a while......
Dennis
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I think things are slow due to summertime.
On another note, I saw your mention of the pop:
<< <i>2000-P 10C, PCGS MS68FB, pop 329/0. The pop has stayed the same for quite a few months now. >>
What if....... PCGS had all 329 in hand at once & had the graders nit-pick the ONE that was better than the rest (for whatever reason) and made it a 69?
Just a side thought...
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
you'll find out the market value of your coins
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Aerospace Structures Engineer
<< <i>throw them up on eBay for a reasonable start (face value) and no reserve
you'll find out the market value of your coins >>
That works for some coins Bailey, but I don't believe he'll realize "market value" for his set this way. He may realize "Ebay market value", which is a different animal.
If you're in a rush though.........Ebay will do the trick.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I've never had ANY luck trading clads on the BST board. If these were extremely scarce you might
get one of the Roosy guys here interested but you'll probably need a far wider audience to sell
them. Try E-bay.
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
And I want another coin real badly
Dennis
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<< <i>Hi Dennis,
can't speak for anyone else, but I for one have NO interest in clad coins..
I'd not be a buyer of your dimes for even a dollar each.
sorry >>
roosevelt dimes are about the most plastic-proof series there is. few people are duped by wacky pop reports or whatever baloney tools are used to hype up slabs. those that do fall for that nonsense deserve to pay too much.
those 2 coins are worth $20 together regardless of what plastic they're stuck in. personally , if in needed 'em, i'd have both cracked out & in my dansco literally w/in seconds.
but i DON'T need 'em, because they are C-O-M-M-O-N as dirt
K S
If you don't like modern coins, don't comment then.
Dennis
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but i don't love to pay waaaaaay too much $$$ for modern coins that are more common then kernels in a bag if microwave popcorn.
K S
Find a pre- 2000 PCGS MS69FB clad roosie (ungraded) and grade it within 6 months. If you make it, I will return all the grading costs + another $100. If you don't make it, I get the $100 from you.....
Remember, if you make one, you will be able to sell it for at least $1000....
Deal??
Dennis
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<< <i> pre- 2000 PCGS MS69FB >>
Don't you mean MS67 or MS68. That's what you are selling. Business strike MS69's are just plain rare in all series (except maybe lincolns).
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Dennis, you're the one who asked for opinions. sorry if you don't like our answers
My price isn't too high. Together, these 2 are going for the same prices at Ebay and TT......WITHOUT shipping.
well, there you go. Sell them there and get your money...... trying to sell them here where nobody wants them makes little sense
as far as finding these, again no thank you, I prefer a different kind of coin
I understand it's really hard to find "Gem" Chuck E Cheese tokens but I don't want to spend my time or money on those, either
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I understand it's really hard to find "Gem" Chuck E Cheese tokens but I don't want to spend my time or money on those, either >>
<< <i>
I understand it's really hard to find "Gem" Chuck E Cheese tokens but I don't want to spend my time or money on those, either
100 Oz platinum bars are also difficult to find gem since they tend to get banged around
a lot. It unlikely many peopl want to spend time or money on these either and it's just
as irrelevant to the discussion.
The tokens actually tend to be pretty well made so it's just a matter of finding them in
original condition. Most of the thousands of other amusement tokens are tougher un-
less you have a specific date in mind.
<< <i>
go suck a bug!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Roosies are the red-headed stepchild of collector coins
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since 8/1/6
Dave
HOWEVER, like ALL modern coins, they were and still are, heavily saved and no dates are even remotely difficult to find. Couple that with the lack of purchasing power and you have jars and shoeboxes filled with who knows what. Even if half of the silver issues were melted, there would still be plenty to go around. The only way moderns have value is by elevating them to condition rarities as in MS-69 Roosevelt dimes or MS-67 FBL Franklins, full-step Jefferson nickels and the list goes on. If they were minted before 1930 with lower mintages, they would be worth much much more in any grade. At that time, coins were not saved in large numbers and many of the ones that were, got thrown back into circulation during the Depression. Morgan and Peace dollars are exceptions, but those series still contain a good number of scarce issues.
I can only speak for myself when I say that the best coins are those with relatively low mintages and not hoarded in great numbers. COINS THAT ARE RARE AS DATES will always appeal to me. These factors add to the excitement of owning them. It's really a matter of taste, because some of you would be thrilled to acquire a low population MS-69 Roosevelt dime with spectacular toning. These might rise in value beyond any of our imaginations. Who knows, but one thing for sure, I would not put big money in any of them.
<< <i>As many of us have said in here, you collect what you like. If Roosevelt dimes do it for you, then by all means, enjoy!
HOWEVER, like ALL modern coins, they were and still are, heavily saved and no dates are even remotely difficult to find. Couple that with the lack of purchasing power and you have jars and shoeboxes filled with who knows what. Even if half of the silver issues were melted, there would still be plenty to go around. The only way moderns have value is by elevating them to condition rarities as in MS-69 Roosevelt dimes or MS-67 FBL Franklins, full-step Jefferson nickels and the list goes on. If they were minted before 1930 with lower mintages, they would be worth much much more in any grade. At that time, coins were not saved in large numbers and many of the ones that were, got thrown back into circulation during the Depression. Morgan and Peace dollars are exceptions, but those series still contain a good number of scarce issues.
I can only speak for myself when I say that the best coins are those with relatively low mintages and not hoarded in great numbers. COINS THAT ARE RARE AS DATES will always appeal to me. These factors add to the excitement of owning them. It's really a matter of taste, because some of you would be thrilled to acquire a low population MS-69 Roosevelt dime with spectacular toning. These might rise in value beyond any of our imaginations. Who knows, but one thing for sure, I would not put big money in any of them. >>
I wouldn't advise anyone to put any money into coins and if I had it to do over I'd do
it very much differently. I'd put more effort into the rare moderns and less into the com-
moner ones. I'd also start much later since there was little advantage to starting early
and the opportunity costs were extremely high.
Be that as it may, few of the moderns were saved. You can believe these are all common
and it's not entirely incorrect but there were far fewer of these saved than there were of
the older coins. This is a simple fact that you can find for yourself by just studying the sit-
uation. The very old coins were saved in huge numbers over and over as a store of value.
They were saved by individuals, banks, and even the federal government. Look at the mil-
lions of silver dollars released by the government during the '60's and '70's. Most all the
old gold and silver (and to a lesser extent copper) coins were saved over and over and were
collected by numismatists. If not for this we would not have these coins today. After 1931
this saving became more systematic and involved mostly BU coins. These were saved by the
roll and bag. So many millions were saved by collectors that some actually believed we caused
the coin shortage of 1963-6. This led to many changes by the fed and mint to discourage the
saving of coins, not the least of which was the elimination of silver. These means worked. Peo-
ple did stop saving new coin and refused to collect coins made after 1964. Most of these coins
would be scarce or rare if not for the existence on mint sets. Here's a simple test: find an unc
1984 type "d" reverse quarter. This is an extremely common coin and accounts for nearly 25%
of production. So a quarter of the '84 quarters are type "d", right? Wrong!! Almost all '84 quar-
ters come from mint sets so fewer than about 1% of uncs are type "d".
Yes, there are some moderns which were heavily saved like '76 quarters or '75-D cents, but these
will not do you a lot of good if you're looking for a '94 dime. If you think all these are available in
nice collectible grades by the ton then it's because you haven't looked. If you think most prices
of medium quality coins is low because of a large supply you're wrong. Many of these have far
lower numbers extant than the older coins that sell for a lot of money. The reason for the low
prices is a huge lack of demand. And while many can't understand this the highest grades don't
sometimes sell for a lot because there's always a greater fool but because there is a real demand
for these and the supply simply isn't out there.
I know there are no scarce dates in the 46-64 run, but it is affordable, looks great blast white or toned all to pieces, and its Silver.
But if clad is your thing, rock on! Condition rarities are all there is left in the modern era; run with it. Maybe you will prove all of the "modern crap" guys wrong???
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>This is kinda fun... people in England 90 years ago thought the same way about coinage from the reign of Edward VII... and look what happened. I think the facts are alittle different because of TPG and what is considered in determining whether a Roosie makes the grade with the appropriate designation... I wonder when Full Beard or Full Hair will be a designation for Edward VII or even George V... >>
Avery similar thing happened in England in 1920. The coinage was debased to 500 fine
silver from sterling. Many of the early issues are extremely difficult to find in high grades
like XF or unc. These sell for hundreds of dollars sometimes but would sell for far more if
not for the fact that there is almost no demand.
<< <i>Be that as it may, few of the moderns were saved. You can believe these are all common
and it's not entirely incorrect but there were far fewer of these saved than there were of
the older coins. This is a simple fact that you can find for yourself by just studying the sit-
uation. The very old coins were saved in huge numbers over and over as a store of value. >>
I respectfully disagree. As I said before, Morgan and Peace dollars are exceptions, but when it comes to sets, they are far more difficult to complete in the same condition than any clad set. Now, is an MS-68 clad set more difficult to complete than a Fine-12 set of Morgans? I'd have to say, perhaps, but in this case, the difficulty is strictly based on its condition rarity status.
Take a look at the Barber series. Do you believe they were hoarded or saved as a store of value? How about Indian cents. How many dates from the 1870's were set aside? Not many, and the ones that were set aside are in horrible condition. Compare Standing Liberty quarters to Washington quarters. Compare early Walking Liberty half dollars to Franklins. How about Liberty Nickels?
Excluding mint errors, every single modern silver and clad issue is easily available in most states of preservation up to choice mint state condition. Let's say, for the sake of argument, MS-63.
Try putting together a complete XF- AU Standing Liberty quarter collection and then try doing the same for the Washington quarter, including all silver, clad and proof issues. If you examine every date and mintmark combination, which would you say was saved in greater numbers?
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
then only one set of each is possible. But the simple fact is that there are millions of uncs
of many of the Morgan dollar dates and many of these are quite choice or gem. There is
a wide network of dealers and an industry geared to selling these coins. They can still be
found by the roll and bag though in the last several years the bags have had a terrible at-
trition. There are a few regular issue dates that are scarce or tough in any condition.
There are endless ads in every coin paper offering these with glowing descriptions and a
long line of customers to snap them up. A trip to coin shows often will reveal dealer after
dealer with little to offer other than slabs of silver dollars. These are the backbone of the
hobby because they are so plentiful and in such high demand.
There are no glowing ads for clad coins. The ads in the papers are offering to buy not sell.
There are few rolls and too few bags to mention. Clad that dosn't appear in mint sets is
very difficult to find in unc. Of the few who collect these coiins many collect varieties. Many
of these do not exist in unc at all and most are scarce (except those which appear in mint
sets). You might look at the mint set numbers and claim that at least these will always be
common but again you might be wrong. Mint sets have been getting busted up and the con-
tents spent since the day they were made. Large percentages are destroyed in their first year
just to keep sets up to date. Even these sets weren't really set aside and collected in most
cases. people bought them as a speculation that they would soar in value and then they'd
sell. It is collected coins which are most likely to survive, not production. But still there are not
only the many varieties that don't appear in mint sets there are also numerous single coins in-
cluding all the '82 and '83 issues. It's not just a matter of MS-68's being rare. In many cases
there are no MS-68's and even MS-65's can be quite scarce. Try finding a nice MS-65 '82-P.
You'll find that not only are these gems scarce but that the few around are not for sale. There
aren't going to be bags of these around to check for gems because there are no bags. Take
it from me, even if there were bags the odds of finding a gem in one are poor. I went through
these back in '82 and even choice examples were few and far between. Forget MS-68.
The reason clad quarters are cheaper than Morgans is that the demand is a tiny fraction for them.
If everyone just collects what they like this demand may remain a tiny fraction but there will have
to be a new generation of collectors and I haven't met a modern basher among them yet. Sure,
many of them have no use for clad quarters but I'm still betting that as time goes on the demand
for these coins is not going to fall. With populations like "14" I'm also guessing the demand could
swamp the supply.
What about my other examples? Liberty nickels are not promoted as a set and were basically ignored at the time of issue, but it would only take the tiniest bit of promotion to send the set sky high.
It would be foolish of me to say that you are dead wrong about all this, because I cannot predict future collecting trends, but my educated guess is that enough of the clad issues will be around to satisfy most collectors. There is an argument to made that dinosaurs like me with my old-fashioned coin collecting aesthetic will not be around forever and clads will have their day in the sun. Time will tell.
of these saved in unc and the coin got up to $150 in todays money. There were
not this many Jefferson collectors back in 1964 but this coin was being purchased
by speculators in anticipation of future demand. The demand didn't materialize, the
market crashed and the price has languished ever since.
A 1996-W dime had a mintage of just about 60% of the number of '50-D nickels
saved yet it goes for only around $15. But this doesn't really tell the whole tale.
In 1950 few people cared as much about quality and part of the reason is that
most coins from this era exist in a much narrower range of quality and even where
the range is greater there were still large numbers of coins to pick through if some-
one were inclined to seek superior examples. It was the mid-'50's before quality
crashed and it became more difficult to find attractive coins. This situation certainly
did not improve with the advent of clad. Indeed, generally quality took yet another
nose-dive. Not only were far fewer coins being saved but the average quality was
much reduced. Clad coins tend to look pretty bad when they are not well made. Some
of this may be my own perspective but much of this stuff just looks terrible to my eye.
So now you have a situation where not only are the coins often considerably scarcer
but much of the competition might be for only the nicest 50% or 5%. Currently this
has little effect on the market because demand is still only a few thousand collectors
but look at the huge numbers of folders being sold. Look at the far larger numbers of
people already collecting the clad states quarters. It's difficult to believe that a great
set like this that's already being collected by many tens of thousands (if not hundreds
of thousands) can not grow enough to snap up the finest fourteen 1994 dimes. If it
were always a simple matter of buying one of millions of coins not quite as good then
I'd agree that the market is dependent on multiple factors to grow, but in some cases
the undergrades are just as scarce as the superb gems. Some of these coins have tot-
al populations of nice attractive coins in the hundreds and some of the varieties probably
do not even exist in unc. So these coins are not dependent on collectors seeking only
the finest, they are merely dependent on collectors.
So what might attact collectors? How about all the rare coins in circulation? How about
the simple curiousity that a newbie experiences when he notices a nice AU quarter from
the '70's while he's searching for his latest state issue? How about upgrades for the many
folders already being filled? There are many reasons to collect these coins and their avail-
ability is just one of them.
One of the biggest things working against them is that they are unpromotable because
they can't be found in sufficient quantity. Very few dealers can put together more than
a "roll set" of these because there are so many stoppers in it. When you consider how
few dealers even stock such coins or are willing to make market offers for them you can
realize just how difficult a promotion would be.
I was all by myself in 1982 looking for quarters. I didn't operate in a vacuum, I kept my
eyes open and watched what others were doing. I talked to bank vault managers about
other people looking at these coins. I've also watched these markets and behaviors since.
Forget it. There aren't people with piggy banks full of these. There aren't rolls and bags
and there aren't thousands of old collections containing them. There were 10,000 souvenir
sets and there were at least five different privately assembled mint sets. Two of these
five probably contain no choice coins and three of the five contain no gem coins. Gems are
quite scarce in the sets they do appear in. There has been huge attrition on these sets
in order to make collections. There are another 40,000 or so coins in rolls and bags. There
are some gems here but figure the incidence of them is probably pretty similar to what I
saw in 1982 (<.1%).
There were over five hundred million 1982 quarters minted. This is the main reason an issue like this doesn't attract me. If MOST 1982 quarters in existence become worn down to low circulated grades, I might change my tune.
I wonder if the market for chuck e. cheese tokens is thin also......
A 1989-P MS67FB dime (pop 27/0) I can get for around $30. And thats a top pop.
A 1999-P MS68FB dime (pop 253/0) averages at $28 on ebay.
Both of these I would have to imagine are now in registries because they are top pop moderns.
Now lets look at yours:
1994-P 10C, PCGS MS67FB, pop 18/1. The MS68FB is tightly held in the #1 registry set owned by JHF.
2000-P 10C, PCGS MS68FB, pop 329/0. The pop has stayed the same for quite a few months now.
The two coins I gave examples for both have lower pops than your two.. and mine can be had for less than $60. Im not sure where you came up with $140 being a fair offer...
Im not trying to be mean, just make you think about why you havent received any offers.
On Teletrade, the average closing price for a 2000-P MS68FB 10c including Buyers Premium is $20.70
On Teletrade, the average closing price for a 1994-P MS67FB 10c including Buyers Premium is $106.66
BUT.. something to realize is that one price for these was $65 then $180 and then $75. Someone was a little too happy that night it went for $180. As you can see from the other prices, $70 is more in line.
<< <i>I will actually would go in competition with you:
Find a pre- 2000 PCGS MS69FB clad roosie (ungraded) and grade it within 6 months. If you make it, I will return all the grading costs + another $100. If you don't make it, I get the $100 from you.....
Remember, if you make one, you will be able to sell it for at least $1000....
Deal?? >>
no deal. i collect coins, not plastic. i couldn't give a rat's rear-end whether some nameless, faceless, anonymous coin grader thinks my roosie grades ms-67, ms-68 or ms-69.
what i don't understand is, i state that your asking too much $$$ for your coins, & you instantly assumed that i don't like moderns....
WHERE'S THE CONNECTION???
K S
<< <i>but i DON'T need 'em, because they are C-O-M-M-O-N as dirt >>
Here's the connection. You say these coins are common as dirt in all grades. Then I ask you if you can find a pre-2000 roosie in PCGS MS69FB and grade it yourself....
That's the connection.
Dennis
PS I never said that you don't like moderns
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<< <i><< but i DON'T need 'em, because they are C-O-M-M-O-N as dirt >> Here's the connection. You say these coins are common as dirt in all grades. >>
i did not say that. i said the coins are common.
plastic w/ a certain grade may be scarce, but the coins are undeniabley common.
<< <i>PS I never said that you don't like moderns >>
well it sure came across that way when you wrote
<< <i>If you don't like modern coins, don't comment then. >>
look, i'm not trying to slam you at all. i just think your overvaluing the coins, but hey, what the he11 does my worthless opinon matter??? it just seems strange to possibly assume that "roosies are unpopular" merely because a couple of plasticized coins that you happen own have drawn no interest. seems to me the safer assumption is an excessive asking price. maybe the best thing is that you should just slap the coins on ebay, start at face value ($ 0.20), offer free shipping & let the market take hold. who knows? there might very well be someone out there who values the holders as much as you do! which is just fine, in fact, i really do wish you luck selling them!!!
K S