Added The 1801 Draped Bust Half To My Collection... Take A Shot At The Grade **PCGS Grade Posted***

stman

Hi folks, for those not familiar with this series, no half dollars were produced after the 1797 (small eagle reverse) until 1801.
This is the first year with the heraldic (large) eagle reverse. Mintage for this issue was 30,289, with just one obverse die
and two reverse dies used for the 1801 half. This piece is the O-101 R-3 variety and is the less scarce of the two variety's for this year.
But still scarce nonetheless and by far not a common coin.

I've always been attracted to first year of issue designs. When I saw this one available it had the "Look" that I like to see
on a Draped Bust Half, and in the condition that I felt I could afford.... I think. Go ahead and take a shot (it should be fairly
straight forward) at the grade.
Please post one you might have or an 1802 or heck, post anything you want in this series. Any information added to this
thread would be great as well.

MikeInFL

Nice coin. I'll say EF 35...Mike

BigAl

nice looking coin. I also like the transition year in this series, 1807, when they minted both the draped and the capped. I believe the draped mintage was somewhere around 300k, which is less than half the mintage of 1806, and alot less than the 1807 capped mintage. Nice circ examples of the draped 1807 are affordable given the pops.

itsnotjustme

The obverse looks like a nice VF. The reverse looks STRONG XF. So I'll guess 35-40.

Nocerino18

Nice VF35. Is it slabbed. Beautiful coin.

Nocerino18

Maybe even EF40. Hard to tell with the reverse pic. Coin in hand might show a little more detail on the horizontal and vertical lines.

Nysoto

Stman,

Awesome coin! VF30. The big lumps on the reverse appear on all O.101's, one can only speculate as to the cause of these defects on the working die. Auction data shows a 70/30 split between O.101 and O.102 populations. The 1801's have a fairly good strike, part of this is from, I believe, a different obverse master die used from 1801 to part of 1805 (obv 1 and 7). The relief appears slightly higher on the 1801's compared to the late 1805's to 1807 draped bust halves, along with several other differences. They can be overgraded because the better strikes and higher obv relief tends to wear well.

Nocerino18

Just for everyone's information - Heritage says that the O-102 is the scarcer variety, an R4

"O-102, R.4. The scarcer of only two die pairings for the date"

1801 HALF DOLLAR

stman

Here is my image using a scanner..... Keep in mind I was going for color on the scan rather than detail.
The tick on the jaw is there but as always this is a big image and shows it much more pronounced than it is.
Besides, it's a circulated coin. For those that have guessed so far, feel free to change your
grade higher or lower if you feel my scan changes things. I guess we'll allow that.

stman

Just for everyone's information - Heritage says that the O-102 is the scarcer variety, an R4

Thanks, I believe "stman" tried to relay this information in his first post.

LeeG

"Sweet" Very Nice Coin stman! I'll vote 30/35.

BillJones

Slam dunk VF-30 using the old standards ...

Probably an EF-40 now ...

rays

This beautiful 1802, is being auctioned today by ANR. It is from the Garret collection, ex Prior.

MFH

First glance - based on the smaller image: VF 35

Based on the larger image: VF 30

coynclecter

I think that the subdued strike make the wear look more than it is. I'd vote for a 40, posssibly an old light cleaning.

In general a very nice, very attractive coin.

vega1

I think I've been brain-washed by reading some of the previous guesses. I would also say VF-35. Very pretty, I like it very much.

Baley

Very, very nice example of scarce coin in ANY grade, never mind a nice choice VF++ like yours!
Not many folks are going to be able to show you theirs, but I'll put up one that'll make yours look all the nicer.. this one's Good 6 or so..





REALLY nice scans, btw

No, seriously!

stman

Thanks for the replies and the good words folks.

<< <i> posssibly an old light cleaning >>


I don't believe so. It appears to be very original IMO.
Baley, thanks for posting your 1801, and for the good words as well.

The first image is from a digital camera (not from me) the 2nd is my scan.
Both are very close to what the actual coin looks like in person.

elwood

here's my 02

mgoodm3

EF40

AlaBill

I'll try EF-45

MFH

Steve,

I wouldn't let Jim D. anywhere near that beauty !!!

morgannut2

My first impression was VF-35. If there's some luster I'm missing go to 40, if there's some light random hairlines maybe down to VF-25. Of course I've never seen one live, much less graded an example!!

Gemini

Nice coin...Congrats!

jdimmick

Seeing the first photo, I would have ventured Vf-35, but after seeing the close up, I beleive its better than that. Looks like residual luster left around the protected areas, as well as very original nice surfaces. At least Xf-40, maybe

LanLord

Very nice.

I tend to agree with the vf30 - 35 crowd.

The reverse does look much stronger than that, but the wear around the bust line makes me think VF.

TomB

Truly outstanding coin! Way to go! Your piece is completely original and devoid of even the most trivial imperfections that these coins seem to pick up like magnets over time. The O.101 is the more "common" variety, as you have noted, and is easily distinguished from the O.102 by the die imperfections that litter the reverse near 7:00. I will say yours is a VF30, as is mine.


Elwood, is your 1802 from Bryce?

stman

Tom, very nice piece and thanks for posting, as well as Ellwood's 1802. Tom, going by just detail your coin looks fairly close to mine.
I believe your's has a bit more detail on the eagle's tail feathers. On mine that small dark spot on the forehead is into the coin a bit and completely
toned in. Although I don't see it as a problem whatsoever on a coin this old. OK, I rarely do guess the grades, as grades are really
not that important to me these days. One of the reasons is sometimes the essence of a piece gets lost in being obsessed about the grade
and not the beauty/or lack of.

This has been interesting so far, time for a hint..... no one has guessed the holdered grade so far.
And there has been a wide range of opinions, which is to be expected.

DJC

I really like it, and would probably go along with everyone else on the 30-40 range, but something (maybe your hint? ) tells me it may be lower. Looks solidly 30, plenty of appeal, good case could be made for 40, so probably sitting in a VF20 holder.

pursuitofliberty

well, it is a beauty, not doubt!!

as for the grade ... I would have thought it was a 40 ... except for your hint ... so maybe it's a 40 in a 25 holder?

mozin

I call this coin a VF25.

stman

Hi folks and thanks for all the replies and good words on the coin. Kinda scratch my head on this one. I'm flattered by all the higher guesses.
I believe this coin would sit just fine in a VF-25-30 holder. Sometimes it can be splitting hairs though. I've described what I could and showed a couple decent images and it seems most are in the VF-30 range. I've seen other ones in these holders that were no where near as original as this one.

That said, if it had been in a higher grade holder than I probably could not have afforded it as it would have had the "double bump"
added in the price. I did pay strong as most of you know coins such as this you gotta throw the sheets away. Is this a case of PCGS being tight,
is that a good thing? Just thought I'd throw this up here. I love the surfaces on this piece. Under a good light and close inspection it has what I call
that old time rose/grayish blue color. And as you can see a bit of sea-foam green type color highlighting the hair and some other protected areas. Very original IMO.

mozin

Since I was the only one calling this coin as low as VF25, what do I win?

stman

<< <i>Since I was the only one calling this coin as low as VF25, what do I win? >>



Well, NOTHING Besides, only after I gave a hint that no one guessed it yet did the lower grades start coming.
I did like that folks guessed pretty much what they thought (like you did) and not what slab grade or who slabbed it.

stman

Bump in case anybody was interested and missed the posted grade.

jdimmick

Boy, Blew that one, sure looks on the upper end of the vf scale, not only a 20.

Nice coin STMAN

ER

<< <i>..........................sure looks on the upper end of the vf scale, not only a 20.

Nice coin STMAN >>

LeeG

Very nice score on that one! Congrat's!

stman

jdimmick quote....


<< <i>Boy, Blew that one, sure looks on the upper end of the vf scale, not only a 20.

Nice coin STMAN >>



Thanks, but the real question would be WHO blew it on this one?
I didn't submit it. And as mentioned earlier I paid strong so no big deal either way.
I don't submit but just for fun I'd like to do this one. Problem is I believe they crack
them for grade review and it's not worth risking them to be handling this and get
a bunch of fingerprints on this beauty.

morgannut2

To quote Ms. Sperber "What was PCGS thinking when they graded this!!!"

itsnotjustme

Stman,
Very nice. Looking at the scan I would have lowered my estimate to 30. Very nice coin for one in a 20 holder!

BillJones

Yes, only a VF-20 on that coin is quite a hosing. The coin is clearly a very choice VF, and unlike some other coins where the price difference between VF-20 and VF-30 does not mean much, IT DOES on this coin.

Going by Gray Sheet prices, which are really invalid for this coin, but useful from a relative sense, the VF bid is $1,000 (try and find one) and the EF bid is $3,100 (once more try and find one at that price). Given that price gap, a VF-30 would be worth at least $1,600 or so (actually I’d value this coin at a good deal more than that.).

To continue this, the NGC registry just gives out points for the single circulated coin grade. A VF-30 or 35 gets no more points than a VF-20. That is also full of it. When there are big gaps in the pricing, the middle grades DO MATTER.

stman

<< <i>Given that price gap, a VF-30 would be worth at least $1,600 or so >>



Bill, good analysis, I'm assuming you are relatively speaking value as compared to the sheet prices (which are way off base)
and not saying this coin in a VF-30 holder is worth around 1,600? Heck try and find one in VF-20 with any quality for 1,600.

And I agree to try and find one of any quality at or even close to sheet prices.

BillJones

Given the pressure on key day coins, I'd say your piece would be worth $2,500 or so, given the holder that it's in. If it were in a VF-30 holder, maybe $2,800 to $3,000, but to get the $2.500 you would have to find a collector who would look past that grade on the holder.

stman

Bill, I believe you are right on target with your last post. You a sharp cookie. A grumpy one sometimes but
sharp nonetheless.

Baley

"sheet" price on these is a joke, or possibly a ploy to help dealers get nice coins from the public for half price.

not that there are many nice 1801 or 1802 halves to begin with.

I think you're smart to put this coin away

and wish I'd seen it first