"All Barber Coinage Is Hot" - I'm worried

ccex

I just renewed my subrscription to Coin World after a year or so of complaining to their subscription department about some of their advertisers they allow. When I returned home from work, I found my 2/7 Coin World bagged with the Coin Values magazine. Their "Market Analyst" Mark Ferguson decided to tiltle his current comments "All Barber coinage is hot - High-grade 20th century values soften". The piece mentioned that dealers are having difficulty finding no-problem Barber coins, so they had to raise their buy prices. At the same time, they haven't been able to move late-date MS-65 Walkers, which are plentiful.

The reason I'm worried about such a headline is that I returned to coin collecting 5+ years ago looking for a niche to explore which would not be hyped, unlike the Franklins and Morgans I bought as an "investment" in the late '80s. I thought that Barber Dimes were a relatively boring design that only a specialist could love. I also thought that Barber Dimes were too small to curry favor with investors, and would never be hyped like Franklins, short-set Walkers, and common-date Morgans.

Two to five years few years ago, I had no problem finding no-problem, full Liberty circulated Barber coins on eBay or at shows for near Graysheet bid, and built two complete sets of dimes, a set of halves, and most of a Barber Quarter set. Recently, I have been outbid or walked away from asking prices of the Barber coins I need to upgrade my sets. I've seen some truth to this headline, but still consider it misleading.

Has anyone else tried to move a bunch of AG-G Barber coins lately? How about obviously cleaned Barbers? Even common date dimes in VF or common date quarters and halves in VG seem anything but "hot" to me. The most common Barbers still go begging for buyers. I don't expect to see DHRC and other like firms recommending low grade or cleaned Barber coins any time soon, even though most Barber coins are low grade and/or cleaned.

Coin World Trends/Coin Values likes to oversimplify the market, often calling a coin a "sleeper" simply because its retail price divided by its original mintage is low. This weeks headline is just as erroneous. Still, I am worried that my contrarian collecting habits might be popular.

When I first started posting here, my sig line was the Groucho Marx quote, "I would not want to join an organization which accepts people like me as members" Now I read that people like me are making the market "hot". Maybe I should not have renewed my subscription to Cion World

cladking

You have very goog sig lines but you may be wrong about typical Barbers; they have
been selling for strong prices. Even AG's and unattractive coins have been going for
good premiums and nice attractive low grade pieces are at double or triple melt value.

ARCO

Paul - Barbers have been picking up steam for the last ten years. I have talked to many old time Barber collectors (35+ years) and they told me that NEVER have Barbers been easy to find unmolested and problem free with nice eye appeal. The reason they are found at all is because there are relatively few collectors compared to other popular series.

I started collecting on Ebay five years ago and in my experience the action is much more competitive for all Barber coinage in the Fine-AU grades for common dates, and G-AU for the keys and semi-keys, than it was about three years ago. I used to be able to buy coins at greysheet or right at retail for those perfect circulated original coins, but not anymore. I have seen all but the most common of dates go for retail+20% - 100%. There was a VF30 1913-D Barber half that sold for $317.00 last week. This is a coin that retails at $300 in AU!

In regards to Coin World, they rotate articles to highlight different series all the time. It is just part of piquing the interest for a wide range of collectors. Coinage ran a really nice article on Barber halves about three years ago, and I thought for sure that Barbers would dry up. Nothing happened and collecting went on as usual for me. The biggest deterrent to Barber popularity is its scarcity. Collectors get frustrated by the lack of material and give up on the series after spending months of looking and only having a few hairlined dogs for their efforts. LOL

You have to be a glutton for pain to stick with the Barber coinage. Ask Dave99. He is going on ten years and still needs pieces and upgrades for his Quarter set.

good deals are still available to the truly die hard Ebay searcher. Here are five "steals" I found on Ebay amongst many others.

PCGS graded AU53 1911-D - Paid $120.00
1913-D XF40 - paid 125.00
PCGS XF45 1914 - Paid $285.00!
1910 VF20 - Bought in group, cost was about $30.00
1900-S AU55 - Part of group, paid about $69.00

Tyler

mr1931S

There is no in-between for Barbers. Either you like 'em or you don't. Nice, "unmessed with" ones in the scarcer dates/mints of all three series can be very difficult to almost impossible to find and when one does find one better be ready to pay.

"Nice, original Barber coins are hard to buy and easy to sell."-Anonymous dealer

Elcontador

I don't subscribe to anything. I buy my sheets on the bourse floor at a show, and have a list of what I want and in what grade(s). I look at auction sites of the major players to give me an idea of the pricing of coins which interest me.

In the last four years, in grades of MS 65-6, Barber Dimes have dropped like a stone. The 1911 P Dime in PC 5 that I bought 'right' in 1999 for $710 now sells in the low $500 range. Barber Quarters and Halves in these grades have not been hit this hard, but I didn't see them going up in price, either.

You are right; Barber coinage in these grades is usually not attractive. Your typical 5 has either ugly color, has been badly dipped or IMO too many contact marks in grade sensitive areas. If you're really unlucky, all of these distractions are present on these coins. Not coincidentally, these are the Barber 5s and 6s that seemed to be offered to the collector virtually all of the time. I gave up trying to find nice mint state 5s, and instead, bought proof coins in this grade (even these coins are just okay for the grade).

The nicest coins do seem to bring a premium now due to the Registry Set hype. A nice 13 D Quarter in PC 6 recently brought 2X what a 16 D would cost. I passed. Not a lot of people like these coins, and nice ones are tough. But it has always been tough to find nice ones. If you collect these coins, you need patience more than anything else. In this regard, it's almost like collecting Shield Nickels.

dimples

Tell me about ccex. I currently have starter sets of barber dimes and quarters on the B/S/T at below bid and not a nibble.

Lakesammman

I've never liked the barber coinage but bought 3 at FUN - go figure!

DrPete

Certainly the prices for g, vg, f, and vf barber halves have increased multiple times in the past 12 months. I have a F/VF set (not nearly as nice as Tyler's) that I have pegged as to value based on CDN bid values.
Here's the bid values on the set over the past 14 months:

12/03: $6074
1/04: $6434
4/04: $6698
7/04: $7114
11/04: $7409
1/05: $7660

That's a 26% increase compared to the original valuation. And coins such as an original 98-O in F15, 04-S in nice VF35 are truly worth FAR more than the bid prices on the sheet. These coins are never available and sell like wildfire when such sets or individual coins are offered by dealers on-line, at shows, or on eBay. It took me ten years to build this set and I can't even imaging being able to find many of the coins now. I do know that when it comes time to sell that I should have no trouble, and will make a nice profit from my enjoyable hobby.

I have also seen the prototypical G/VG set price rise now to $1525 bid per the latest Monthly summary for 1/05. It was not long ago it was $1100-1200, but not having the sheets in front of me I don't recall the exact time frame for this increase.

All in all, the barber halves have been increasing markedly in low and mid-grade. Having also bought a number of gems recently, including coins from the Hugon collection, selected upper end coins have increased substantially as well.

coinkat

I have very few Barber coins and the main reason is they are very difficult to buy in VF35 through AU58... I am talking about original examples. Putting a set together requires knowing the right dealers or a substantial amount of ebay luck...

ccex

Thanks everyone, for these interesting comments.

Is this a fair summary? Barber Halves in original Fine or better seem to be in increasing demand, and even complete half dollar sets (usually encountered in G-VG) have also risen in price. Barber Dimes have not increased in popularity like the halves, except perhaps for key and semi-key dates. Barber coins are still not one of the most popular series with collectors, so bargains are still out there for the diligent.

I still take issue with the Coin World headline that "All Barber Coinage is Hot". If this were true I would be on eBay selling off my common date duplicates and triplicates in AG-VG and obviously cleaned coins.

MFH

I have not had the time to compile the statistics on the entire Barber series, but I thank the good Doctor for his efforts on the case of the Half Dollars.

I have heard enough collectors mention that the Barber Dimes are still somewhat flat in their price increases. The key dates seem to have only gone up a small percentage since I started collecting them back in 1994. My key date of 1895-O was acquired in October, 2000 (PCGS AU58) for what I considered at the time, an outrageous amount at a Superior Auction. From what I can ascertain from current listings of this date and grade, I feel the coin has appreciated 36% in four years and four months.

The key dates in the quarter series also have appreciated in approximately the same percentages. Don't even get me started on the 1901-S.

The half dollars are my latest foray into the Barber series. I started this series back in 1999 and am down to two dates needed. Over the past year I have seen semi-keys go for as much as the same date and mint mark that AU 55-58 coins were selling for a couple of years ago. (Last night an 1903-P -PCGS XF45 - sold for $325+ on Ebay, and I purchased my example in NGC AU55 less than six months ago for just under $400. )

The one "key" date I need, the 1901-S, is just not available in AU 55-58. If I had listened to DrPete last year when Cratylus's NGC 55 was on Ebay for a BIN of $1695, I wouldn't be writing this today. As I see it, this one coin has increased in value (at least to me) of approximately 50% in the last eight months.

I sincerely hope that the three Barber coins I need to complete my set(s) come to light within the next few years. Until then, the hunt continues...

TahoeDale

I tend to agree that the key barbers in all denominations are rising rapidly. Some examples.

1913-S quarters --- all grades are in demand. In 2003, a MS 67 PCGS example sold for 22,000 hammer(over 25,000 with juice) . Today, a PCGS 66 sold for 25,000, and an NGC 66 sold for 33,000. The MS 68? Over 170,000.


1901-S--- As Mike Hayes has indicated, trying to find an AU 50 to 58 is like a snow storm in Nuevo Laredo( I thought about Houston til this Xmas). MS 64--30,000, MS 65 --50,000. These prices are up 30 % in a year.

1896-S.--- One year ago, a very high end dealer had a MS 65 for sale at 29,000. This Jan. a 65 sold for 51,000.

The same is true for the MS 67 halves in all dates. Where last year a 67 might cost 10 to 15,000, depending on rarity, it will now take 20,000 plus for a top pop 67. That's 33 to 100 % more. Less for NGC and other 67's where there are several to choose from.

I am only commenting on the higher end coins. Dr. Pete and Mike Hayes have indicated similar price rises for circulated dates that are rare.

But, the more prevalent dates and grades have not risen near as much as the above. A common MS 65 is still available for under 2700 and that is not 10 % more than in 1998. And non-certified AU's and under are still lagging.

So, are ALL Barber's Hot? No, but many are reaching new highs, and the keys are going away whenever they appear.

Barberman55

<< <i>I have not had the time to compile the statistics on the entire Barber series, but I thank the good Doctor for his efforts on the case of the Half Dollars.

I have heard enough collectors mention that the Barber Dimes are still somewhat flat in their price increases. The key dates seem to have only gone up a small percentage since I started collecting them back in 1994. My key date of 1895-O was acquired in October, 2000 (PCGS AU58) for what I considered at the time, an outrageous amount at a Superior Auction. From what I can ascertain from current listings of this date and grade, I feel the coin has appreciated 36% in four years and four months.

The key dates in the quarter series also have appreciated in approximately the same percentages. Don't even get me started on the 1901-S.

The half dollars are my latest foray into the Barber series. I started this series back in 1999 and am down to two dates needed. Over the past year I have seen semi-keys go for as much as the same date and mint mark that AU 55-58 coins were selling for a couple of years ago. (Last night an 1903-P -PCGS XF45 - sold for $325+ on Ebay, and I purchased my example in NGC AU55 less than six months ago for just under $400. )

The one "key" date I need, the 1901-S, is just not available in AU 55-58. If I had listened to DrPete last year when Cratylus's NGC 55 was on Ebay for a BIN of $1695, I wouldn't be writing this today. As I see it, this one coin has increased in value (at least to me) of approximately 50% in the last eight months.

I sincerely hope that the three Barber coins I need to complete my set(s) come to light within the next few years. Until then, the hunt continues... >>




Mike,

Are you saying Cratylus had 2, 1901-s barber halves, in AU, on Ebay? A while back I bid on, and won, a NGC, AU-58, 1901-s Barber half from him. My final bid was around $1,800.00.

Cratylus

Dan,
I had just one: the 1901-S NGC AU-58 that you won for $1795.00.

roadrunner

There's more hype to Barbers that meets the eye. If you take your average coin show, which is 95% of them, the interest is moderate at best, with Barbers in any grade, any condition, all dates. Saying that specific Barbers at larger shows are hot may be true. But across the spectrum, I'd say 95% of MS/circ Barbers are slower movers.

El Contador is correct in that anything other than pop tops or eye-appealing color coins are difficult to move. If anything, I'd say MS65 barbers across the board (mostly commoner dates) have fallen in price. Barbers are hotter when someone else owns them. The ones that I own, are just considered stuff when I pull them out. I was sort of surprised when I recently picked up a few better date "S" and "D" Barber quarters in uncleaned orig VF for CDN bid, and couldn't sell them for over bid. Guess they'll go back in the box until I find the right show. The quality of MS65 barber dimes and quarters is pretty low right now. These are coins that would have been 64's or 63's in the 1989 market. I've never been impressed with the rarity of the 3 key Barber quarters in MS65 (96-s, 01-s, 13-s) and likely never will be. The other more "common" S and O mints that surround them are just as tough are far less money. And in this market, truer rarity doesn't always equate to more potential.

roadrunner

MFH

Dan,

My memory is failing me, it was Cratylus's only coin from what I remember.
The grade was only a memory as well, I guess it was an AU 58. Regardless, it was a really nice coin and I still kick myself for not buying it when I had the opportunity.

At least you know you have a market for it should you ever decide to sell.