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yet another altered 1807 half dollar being sold as an "1801"

BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

Comments

  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I guess not, since they've bid it up to almost $900image
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the angle and shape of the second 1 in the date are all wrong, here's a genuine coin:

    image

    Also, on a genuine 1801, the stars on the reverse will be small, not large

    image

    the lumps near the arrowheads are also diagnostic of the 1801 O-101
    (although the more scarce 0-102 has a different reverse and doesn't have the lumps)

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • elwoodelwood Posts: 2,414
    Looks like Jade Rare Coin bid on it?
    Please visit my website prehistoricamerica.com www.visitiowa.org/pinecreekcabins
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's another genuine coin that shows the date a little bit better:

    image

    image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's just wrong.

    The leaning digit which is supposed to the the second 1 is pitiful. Dead givaway.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the followup info and diagnostics.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • makes ya wonder how smoeone stupid enough not to do a little research before bidding on a $900 coin even GOT $900 in the first place !!!!!
    Cam-Slam 2-6-04
    3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
    4 "YOU SUCKS"
    Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
    Seated Halves are my specialty !
    Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
    Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
    (1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
    IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF image
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually, to the seller's credit, he has amended his auction with the comment:

    On Dec-31-04 at 08:09:25 PST, seller added the following information:

    I HAVE BEEN ADVISED BY OTHER COLLECTORS THAT THIS COIN IS ACTUALLY A OVERTON #110, ALTERED FROM A 1807 TO A 1801 AND SO LISTED IN OVERTONS GUIDE ON BUST HALFS

    To his Discredit, he has not ended the auction "due to an error in the listing"

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Thx,s lesson learned
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The seller has 49 negs in the last 12 monthsimage.I wouldn't buy a candy bar from him.
    Al
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    This seller has been NARU'ed several times, and keeps popping back up with new IDs and it seems to take eBay forever to realize it and finally NARU him again. This coin is so obviously altered it isn't funny.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A coin seller with real integrity and professionalism would immediately cancel an auction once his subject coin was demonstrated to be a forgery.

    The knowing selling of altered date forgeries is a scourge on the hobby.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I emailed him
    Answer=Al, good afternoon, I had added to the info on this item, from info from other collectors, and I not elieve that it is Overton #110, thank you Happy New Year, Vern

  • I can't believe Jaderarecoin/Dennis bid on that. He or they must not have really looked at it....
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • lloyd,

    I placed a couple of small bids of $200 or $300, but only because there was NOT an image when I placed the bids. I would not bid much on an 1801 without an image, because I just assumed that it could have problems. Never thought that it would have that bid of a problem though (altered date). Yesterday there was only a "Red X" for an image. In fact, I didn't even know the grade when I bid, but I will easily pay a couple hundred bucks for an 1801 half in any condition.

    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • BigE2BigE2 Posts: 1,037
    Know what's really sad about that? I know NOTHING about early US coinage, but I would have questioned that coin.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    I sent this to the seller:
    Don't you think the honest thing to do would be cancel this auction due to
    error in listing, and relist it correctly? Some who already bid may not
    see what you added at the bottom.


    and got this in response:
    Good afternoon, most of the Bidders had previously advised me that they
    knew that it was Overton #110, while I did not know; I will check with my
    son, and see what he thinks on it; I want it to be right;l Vern


  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I emailed this seller when I noticed the auction and told him it was an 1807 altered to appear to be an 1801. I also told him that there was a single obverse die used for the 1801 halves and that the diagnostics did not match that single obverse die. Lastly, I told him to look in a copy of Overton's book to confirm that it was not an 1801. Unfortunately, he seems to misunderstood what I meant about the Overton book as he is writing that this alteration is somehow mentioned in Overton. Here is my 1801.
    image
    image
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The bidder at almost $900 has wisely withdrawn his bid and the coin is at $770 as we speak. This coin can't be worth much more than $200 being what it is, an 1807 altered to appear as an 1801. It's a problem coin and unless one is collecting examples of altered date forgeries who would want such a piece in a regular collection of Bust halves or as a representative Draped Bust half in a type set?

    It is as great a point of wisdom to hide ignorance, as to discover knowledge. It is sad work to be at that pass, that the best trial of truth must be the multitude of believers, in a crowd where the number of fools so much exceeds that of the wise.-Montaigne





    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    I sent the top 3 bidders an email suggesting they take another look at the auction and read all the way to the bottom. The guy that withdrew his bid sent me a "thank you for pointing it out" email in response.
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I did the same,but only to the first bidder.
    Al

  • Looks like some lucky duck won this coin for just under $900. Isn't that just swell of Vern. I am sure that he is sleeping well, since he edited the listing with big red text that the coin was altered. Unfortunately, the bidder either can't read or didn't read the update. This was still handled in a less than ethical way, imho.
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • As you can see I dont post very often and just registered a few days ago.I live in omaha and know this seller through other dealers and to sum this thread up his name isnt vern.I really shouldnt give his name and I wont but he used to run a coin shop at the westroads a few years ago and has always been dishonest.I have been following his auctions on ebay for quite sometime and it is rather unfortunate that he continues to run these auctions.
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    James
    Welcome to the boards.And thanks for your input.
    .............
    Al
  • GeminiGemini Posts: 3,085
    Sad that there are so many stupid collectors out there obviously not tuned into this message board and will have to learn about coins the hard way. image
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,692 ✭✭✭
    what i think is sad is so-called "collectors" who are really just bottom scrapers & who won't just go to a LEGITIMATE COIN DEALER to buy their coins. i think that such cheap-skates who are paranoid about paying real money for real coins often get their just deserts.

    K S
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    welcome back, sunshine! how ya been?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,692 ✭✭✭


    << <i>how ya been? >>

    yes! absolutely!!!

    K S

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