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Crossing Over PCGS vs. PCI & NGC
Mikesp1
Posts: 41
I have heard that NGC Graded coins if resubmitted to PCGS generally, but not always rate about a 1/2 grade to a full grade down. I also heard that if you resubmitted a PCI graded coin to PCGS, it generally, but not always would be graded down 1-1 1/2 grades down. Does anyone out there have any opinions or approximate percentages on such things? Thanks in advance from Mike.
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Just when you think you got it, you see where someone had some crossover at higher grade too.
I think it depends. . .
I think the process or grading on these crossovers is so subjective that I don't even do it anymore, I just crack out the coin and submit it as an original submission. In doing in that way believe the coin is graded fairly since the originating Grading Service and Grade is not known to the Grader that is Grading the coin.
In my opinion the Crossover is a complete waist of time and money unless you feel you might damage the coin cracking it out. In that case I would suggest just keeping the coin in the original slab and not dealing with the crossover.
My crossover rate with PCI coins (not a whole lot of them) is 0%. Quite a while back I decided there was no point in buying a PCI coin unless I can buy it for the grade I think it really is, and unless I'm willing to crack it out and send it in raw. Under this approach my "crossover" rate with PCI coins at the same original grade has been about 33%. It's been 100% if you consider what I thought the real grade was.
To be fair to PCI, my approach with ANACS coins is almost as skeptical and suspicious.
Then I had this "epiphany" about increasing population and diminishing the value of my PCGS holdings and stopped.
PCI, I never tried with a coin sent in a PCI holder but the few off brand coins that I cherrypicked and cracked out and submitted raw actually did quite nicely but only one met the same exact grade. Other than that I had a key coin cracked out of a crapper grading service's slab that no one wanted simply because of that slab it was in...I stole this coin for literally nothing and today it rests as a PCGS 63 1932-S. Cha-Ching.
Man, for a while I was digging crossing over and then with the aforementioned "Epiphany", one day I just decided to stop while I was ahead.
You and your buddy both think you are legends in your own minds.
Thanks for the support, Craig. You and I are in some good company!
Below are a couple of e-mails I recieved from other eBay members.
>>>
"Good Afternoon,
I see that you have had dealings with that
low life piece of garbage mendelio. He gave me a
very bad time for 3 days over 2 very nice original
rolls of franklins. He was sending me rude emails 8
hours after he paid wanting to know why his coins
have not been shipped yet. when he received them I
think he was going to switch them out on me, so I
offered to do the insurance claim and he gave me 2
negs. If I lived by this a$$hole I would look him up
and settle this score. I am sorry to sound so angry,
but I sell only nice stuff and not junk like this
jerk says. I have heard from other sellers about
this AH and like them I am just venting.
Regards
Xxx Xxxxxxxx" <<<
>>>
"FYI,
We had the same problem with Mendeljo but we had the
auto feedback on and ACCIDENTALLY gave him a
positive. This guy is aweful. You should complain to
eBay. I am going to.
XX" <<<
bigfatjohn's feedback
's'matter john, your old handle wore out any welcome?!?!
and he calls us arrogant!!!
Go blow your smoke up somebody else's your not making any impact from me.
You guys need some help you have no influence at Ebay or here or anywhere else.
You just keep Blowing Hot Air Around.
You need help, man!
Open up the window, let the bad air out
Chill out dude!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Care to point out a threat, let alone an empty one???
I'm done here. Your replies show what you're made of. nite nite!
You are just adding more hot air to thread.
Hmmm . . . .
Feedback record of bigjlm101:
Total Transactions: 201
Negs left against him: 7
Negs left by him: 27
If I were that unhappy about EBay, I think I would quit instead of switching to my third Ebay handle.
When you get put in charge of the boards and PCGS then you can make policy now your just a Big Bag of Wind.
I don't think you are in charge of the boards or PCGS last time I checked.
Cameron Kiefer
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Well, seeing as how your total post count is 18 at this point in time, and 17 of those appear above this post in this one thread, and none of them have any substance . . .
Seems my comments about chilling out warranted a nice e-mail asking me to politely mind my own business. At least it was more politel than the previous diatribe telling me I was full of hot air.
When someone posts in a public forum, it's not private...last I looked.
If it a private fight, take it off these boards.
Apparently high end Franklins are tougher than high end Ikes. I think this far into the registry sets, any #1 set is tough in any series.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I hope that makes you happy, because it makes me extremely happy.
Thanks, a bunch.
John
Sounds like you have more than one board member ticked off.
James
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I glad I could please you, I like pleasing people like you.
If I have ticked you sounds like maybe you have a problem relating to people. I have invited you to meet with me anytime to discuss the matter further.
That invitation is still open to you any time and any place.
i got 21 of 22 from ngc to pcgs on my morgan set and a few upgrades like my 93-cc from a ngc 64 to a pcgs 65 ....they were all pq coins....heck a while back i saw a guy pay 12,000 for a ngc 66 cleveland and cracked it and it came back pcgs 68...now he wants 50,000 for it
bottonline is....buy the coin not the plastic....last year i sent a pcgs 67 antietam to pcgs which i believe is a 68....and it came back 66....then i sent it in again and it came back 65.....then i sent it into ngc 5 times over the next few months and it came back 67 each time....the next show i had a big dealer send it in to ngc and it came back 67 again....he got it back fast and had time to send it in again the same day ....so he sent it to pcgs ( which i didnt want him to do but he was doing what he thought was in my best interest )...and it came back 67..........thus in about 3 trips into pcgs it had 3 different grades on it and ngc had put the same grade on it for 7 trips...a month later....ngc put 68 on it which is where i thought it should go in the first place
that being said here is a little diddy on a similar subject
**********
now on another note on market savvy and something to think about ...loving commems as i do i realized early on that i would not be able to see all the monsters and get a shot at them in 10 years....and taking longer it would take a fortune to do what i wanted to do...so here is one of my battle plans to take advantage of market knowledge ..right here is where many collectors dont get it yet.....but if you read this ...you will ... i branched out into other types of coins ( when there were no monster commems available)..... i hunted for what i call the cement ceiling coins ( aka pop 0 )....all the upgraders are searching for the pop 0 ceiling coins....they try time after time and fail ...but when they hit...its a homerun....so here is what most miss ....and its so easy..... i dont want to reveal which series i am currently aquiring ( as i dont want anymore competition ...thankyou ).....the coins i am buying only cost 1000 in 66...but with no 67 coins the first would bring 25,000 and a big score...oue la la...so i let the upgraders comb the market place for months and months doing all the leg work...but hey they are pros...and they better buy great coins ...or they will be driving a school bus soon ... they take their shots...getting shot down time after time....not being retail guys and not wanting to deal with the retail people..... when they "give up"...they come see me .....most upgraders are disaplined enough to know when to quit (or they will go broke)....so what do they do...they send it to ngc who will properly grade the coin in a 67 holder and sell it to me for 5000.....why ....because too many people are too damm dumb and are chasing the pcgs registry coins...( aka clones )...they let me just pick em off one by one...and they only make me pay 5000....its stupid i know...but the retail ( aka collectors )lets me do it...and the wholesale and dealers will only do what the retail wants....even if it is stupid....the bottomline is the upgrader paid 1000 for the coin and now has 1000 in fees into it too and i am an easy out for them with a profit...but hey ....they played the game and at least got on base......after a while i have 6 ngc monsters that i have 30,000 in...then boom...an upgrader breaks the cement ceiling.....sells it to a dealer for 25,000 who then sells it to a registry guy for 30,000..........who now sticks out his chest and says to the world.... hey!! look at me i have a pop 1 coin with that smirk on his face......me....i am just giggling my a$$ off at him strutin around like a bantee rooster...you see i have 6 coins just like it....segway 5 years later....we now enter the 68 cement ceiling era....but lookie here....i have 6 shots at the 68 cement ceiling for 30,000 invested...and the rooster over there has 1 for his 30,000....now which side of this picture do you like????...naughty naughty pcgs for not putting the right grade on it in the first place....i know ....i know ....your a public company and you have to increase revenue by undergading coins making everyone play the game....but hey ...you give the advantage to the pros...and your actually hurting the collector by doing it...and he is the very clone who follows you like a zombie ...but thankyou very much for your registry rules where only pcgs coins can go in there....you have made me mucho dinero ....but you screwed your rooster....but dont worry he doesnt even know it
ok guys what ye say....gawd i love this job
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
I read your posting and on the upgrades and interesting but not surprising. Since, you have a lot of knowledge on Morgan's I have a question for you. I have been collecting Green Label Morgans for some time now most of them MS64 and most look like they should be graded MS65 or hgher. Have you had any experience sending the PCGS Green Label coins in for upgrading? I read here and there that most Green Labels are undergraded because standards were tougher then and so forth but I then I also read that is a myth.
Please, share your views on this if you have any experience.
Please, share your views on this if you have any experience. >>>ok here goes...grading is an art not a science ...that being said the services are really "ranking coins" arent they ....and in time ( a long time so they can make a ton of money ) the best will be graded the highest for that particular point in time...its always been that way its just i have said it in a differnt way...but it is the correct way...thus if a collector of the past had the best and it was in a 66 holder then it is still the best....even though there are now ten 67 coins....it just has to be sent in again for grading and it will get a 67 grade....if it was the best back then it still is today...it might be even a 68 today ...thus the cement ceiling....the services might 68 it...or maybe they arent ready to do that yet....and that is the art of the market place
as far as green labels go.....if they were over graded back then... then they might just stay in 64 holders today...if they were undergraded back then they will go into 65 holders or even 66 .and sometimes 67....there are tons of crums out there that upgrraders dont fool with because the spread is not high enough to justify them fooling with it....obvioulsy this is for generics....now if we are talking about a key coin like a 93-cc where the spread is large ...then the average joe wont see that coin as those dont hit the market until the right grase is put on them...but there are tons of crums that the averge joe can play with
about 10 years ago i had a huge dealer get 5,000 ms64 generic morgans...i got to pick 100 from them...if i am a good grader ...i picked the best ones.....so when i go pulling coins to try you can bet im going to pull the best of the best to try.....and i will do so when the spread is where i want it and/or it justifies my time...
thus a term used by dealers come to fruition...its called "fresh"...those 100 green label morgans of mine are fresh...and once i go through them and work them....they wont be fresh anymore....a sharp upgrader can spot a "gone through" deal and will adjust his buy price acordingly if i were to sell it out right "as is" and let him do the work
bottomline is you have to know how to grade...and saining through green labels isnt hard for the guys with knowledge
a little help for you....each coin i look at i ask myself......" where am i going with this"?....yea it might be a 65 in a 64 holder...and after i buy it....send it in...and pay the postage and grading fees all i have to show for it is 30 bucks...i pass.....so i pass a lot......thus i look for spread coins.....look at the sesqui....see what a 64 to a 65 will make me....now i never pass on those.....ever....80-s morgans in 64 looking for a 65...i pass on those all day long
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
always good to throw in 2 cents worth that adds up to a dollar
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Your 2 cents worth is very well thought out and very sound and reasonable business logic.
It is worth more then a dollars, thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge it is much appreciated.
Thanks
John
el gusto es meo
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language