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Prooflike mint state franklins

SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a 1959 Philly mint state franklin. It is different from all other mint state franklins I have seen. It is prroflike in appearance. It this common in Franklins in general?; in Franklins of only specific years and/or mints; or is it uncommon?

Comments

  • ddbirdddbird Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭
    Sure its not a proof set?
  • If you indeed have a prooflike Franklin - those are extremely rare. Franklins were not generally struck in such a way as to yield prooflikes, although there are some years which show some tendency toward this. 1959P is one of these years, so is 1963D, 1954D and 1949S - Here is my 1949S - closest thing I've ever seen to a prooflike in the Franklin Series - not the best pic of this coin - but it's tough to get a really accurate shot given the surfaces.

    image
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for your responses. My 1959-P is clearly not a proof. The 1949-S posted is very nice. It would be nice to see it with my own eyes. When viewed with a 10x loupe, my 1959-P has fields that are clearly not mirrored (like proofs), yet at the same time are not like the typical mint state fields (granular). The fields do have a granular texture, but the surface is very smooth. When it and a regular mint state Franklin are viewed next time each other (under multiple different lighting conditions) they simply look different. The 1959-P, to me, has semiprooflike or prooflike luster. Interesting to hear your comments FC57coins.
  • ddbirdddbird Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭
    Santion..the reason I said that...not becuase i think you dumb, but i actually did that the other day. I still have not figured out if my set is proof or mintstate, because i dont have the envelope. But the fields are very clean, and look almost streaked, not the normal fields of a frankie. Also, I dont think mine is proof becuase it does not have that shiny polished look.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ddbird, the question in your inital reply is a good one and I will give more detail here. The 1959-P is part of a Mint State Franklin set in a Capital holder I bought 5-6 years ago at a local shop. I have also owned and looked at many 1959 proof sets over the years. The 1959-P does not have the mirrors that a brilliant proof has, however its luster is simply different from other mint state franklins I have seen. The luster leans toward prooflike. Thanks for replying to my thread.
  • One test you can give your coin is to get it under a good light and twirl it - if you get a cartwheel effect to your coin, then it wouldn't be considered a prooflike. There are different theories as to why these coins came about, everything from experimental pieces to overzealous mint employees trying to make dies look shiny. At any rate, seeing these pieces now and again is very interesting and makes the series all the more intriguing image
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    great thread and replies

    michael
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,552 ✭✭✭
    There a few MS Franklin dates that come semit PL, or even PL. There are not common. Dates include the '49-S and '59 as the Pug Dog mentioned. I have a '59 MS64 that is semi-PL (almost PL). I don't have a pic handy (and I'm not good at taking pics). For anyone going to the ANA show next week, and wants to see one, I'll bring it to the show (Table #834).
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FC57Coins, I just tried your suggestion to twirl the 1959-P Frankie. The test was done under three different lights. #1 was florescent ceiling lights, #2 was in front of a green exit sign in my office with no other lights on, #3 was in a elevator with recessed lighting I think may be halogen.

    First I twirled a mint state morgan dollar. Under all three types of light the Cartwheel effect was present. Next I twirled the Frankie. No Cartwheel effect, however the light did relect off of the coin in different directions as it was being twirled. Portions of the coin changed from very reflective and bright to dark, in a manner somewhat similar to what one sees when one twirls/tilts a brilliant proof Frankie.

    Looking at the coin multiple times since I began this post merely confirms that it looks different from the other mint state Frankies I have seen. Whether or not it is prooflike or semi prooflike, I have no way to tell given that I have never seen one and have nothing to compare it to. Thanks again for your insightful comments.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TTT.

    Thought I would dredge out this old thread and send it to the top since I posted today a separate thread about Prooflike 1959P Franklins.

    Foodude, for the 1959P half that you have and that you mentioned in your reply, does it have a strongly struck eagle or a weakly struck eagle?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never seen a PL Franklin in hand. I remember the '49-S posted earlier.

    There are different kinds of PL but those which have been basined (ground
    flat) may sometimes have been intended for proof dies but were found to be
    surplus or were misdirected. In those days the dies were all made in Philly
    and then shipped where needed where mint marks were usually added.

    Frequently the output of specially prepared dies and other varieties were made
    in tiny numbers well under what a normal die would produce. In the case of PL
    Franklins that might merely mean that the feature was lost after very few strikes
    but in other cases the implication is that the coins were specially produced as pre-
    sentation pieces or to get collectors' attention. There are significant numbers of
    such oddball pieces but very few of almost all of them. This becomes even more
    true in later years.
    Tempus fugit.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cladking, if you have not done so already, check out my post of today about the 1959P Franklin I have. Without restating it all here, the eagle on the back looks like the strongly struck eagles on the 1956-1963 proofs. Any further thoughts on the coin?

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