Experts, Grade This Baby. NGC sure got it wrong! (results and full photo!)

poorguy

I purchased this morgan silver dollar on ebay from a fellow who inherited his father's estate. I am posting it here for all of the experts to guess the grade that NGC gave this coin. I was particularly surprised when I saw it. The NGC label is kind of greyish and I've seen at least 2 newer NGC labeling types apart from this one.

When you reply with your answer:

1. Give the grade you think NGC gave it.
2. Give the grade you thing it deserves. (definitely will try a crossover w/pcgs w/this one and I would like everyone's opinion on the this baby's grade. You guys have graded some coins on here before and you were dead on the money. no pun intended)

Clues:

NGC Graded and Slabbed Morgan Silver Dollar. Business Strike 1881-S

Old NGC holder. Not sure what 1st generation NGC holders looked like but has the simple text:

1881 S S$1

Grade
6 digit number - 005

Here is a photo of the coin:



I will post a picture of the full slab with the coin in it with her grade tomorrow at 9:00 AM!

Last clue: This time I bought the coin for the holder's price!! muhahaha

-Good Luck!

darktone

MS65 PL

mas3cf

MS62?

Placid

Can you add a picture of the reverse?

RCDB

MS66PL

Goldfinger

I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing anyway...

MS65PL

coinkat

65PL but it is possible it could 66PL

coppercoins

I'd say they graded it MS65PL, but it looks like MS67PL to me....at least.

roadrunner

Earlier 1990's style holder. Coin looks to be of MS66 quality. Probably graded MS65 originally.

roadrunner

BigE

Looks like it has already been cracked out but I would grade it MS 66-----------------BigE

Placid

Tough coin to judge from a picture because the luster and fields are going to be impotant and are hard to judge in a picture.

It could be anywhere from 64-68.
I will guess 67.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

i grade it $100 ms 64+

stewart

Stuart

PoorGuy: Looks like one of the older generation "keyless" NGC holders.

NGC: MS-65
Actual: MS-66

It's difficult to discern from the photo, but the Obverse & Reverse appear to be Semi-PL. It's a nice 1881-S.

poorguy

I can guarantee you that if someone cracked the coin out of this grade holder and replaced it with this coin, they aren't very bright. No, the case has never been cracked open. There is no evidence to support that. Usually there are white's around the edges of the connecting portions of the holder if the holder was cracked open.

K6AZ

That appears to be an NGC holder from about 1989 to 1991. These are usually very conservatively graded, and I have seen many upgrade at PCGS.

Your coin appears to be at least a high end 65, and possibly higher. I can't really tell from sure going by just a picture, but that looks like a very nice coin.

poorguy

There are zero (by zero I mean not a single solitary) break in the frost on Miss Liberty's entire face. There is toning in the fields of a medium to dark purple to blue color. minute scratches (countable, there are 3 microscopic scratches that you need at least a 5x loupe to see) in the field in non-focal areas of the coin. What caught me is that there aren't any marks on miss liberty's face at all. there is a small toned spot that may appear as a break in frost but in person it is clearly a coloration.

BigMoose

NGC 67. Outside shot they graded it 68!

darktone

After seeing the reverse I would say it grades MS67

eagle7

NGC 65. Wish I could see it in person. Digital scans cannot show original luster and one must see that to properly grade a Morgan Dollar. If this coin has been dipped/retoned and does not have original luster then it wont grade 66 no matter how nice the surfaces are. OTH, if it has original luster it will do ok. Who knows from a scan. NO ONE!

Aethelred

66 PL+

Could be DMPL as that is sometimes hard to capture in a photo. Great coin regardless of what the slab says!

DHeath

The coin is very clean, but it's very difficult to tell squat about the luster from digital photos. Assuming the coin is all there, NGC graded it MS65 and it's IMO a PCGS MS66 PL. Good luck! It looks like a keeper.

poorguy

darktone,

If it wouldn't be for the brilliant reverse, I think it would grade MS67 PL. Note. This is not the grade NGC gave it but most of you are close. The one sided PL is common in 1881-S though. I also looked very close to the first 8 in the date and there is a die chip to the upper-left in the top hole in the first 8. I have the Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace Dollars fourth edition and found several vams match this die chip. Most are doubled dates. The most obvious one to me is the VAM 28 Doubled 1-1, S/S left. I can see the doubling in the last 1 but am having trouble seeing the doubling in the first 1. The mintmark is clearly repunched. I will need an expert to look at it closer though. I have handled vams before and know how to recognize them. If anybody has more experience with VAMS, please take a look at this.

dollardude

Way cool, dude! This is an uncommon example of a common date. The strike is full, the luster (like you said) has no breaks and is full, and there are minimal marks. I would say the fields are semi-PL. She's definitely a "gem BU". Here's my opinion:

NGC's grade: MS66
Real grade: MS67

Merc

Looks like a MS66 maybe Pl if both sides are PL. It is hard to tell from the reverse picture. It is hard to get the grade for uncirculated coins just from a picture. Don't get too excited. The 1881-S is very common even in 66.

relayer

I'd say 66. Can't tell from the scan but I don't think it's PL.

Hadleydog

Looks like a nice piece, poorguy!
Considering it's in an old thick ngc holder, I will guess they graded it ms65.
IMO, it appears from the scan to be a modern 66, but only if the luster is all there (it is an early S-mint).
Bottom line is I think the coin has already made you one very happy camper, regardless of what the holder says!

jhar

I'll say MS65DMPL

dlimb2

I would say they gave it a MS65PL being that it was an old holder...in a new holder MS67PL....

joecool

MS66PL........

ultradmpldollars

MS64 or MS65...Should be in a 66 holder?

dizzlecc

I vote ms64 just to be a pain.

dollardude

<< I live in Dothan, AL and I WANT MY COIN SHOW BACK!!!! >>

Jhar, is that the one where some "government officials" demanded that the dealers pay some bogus tax? That was so dumb. I live in Madison, AL, and almost went to this show (too far south of me). Also, I've traveled to Dothan on business to visit Ft. Rucker. Nice base, and the people were very friendly there!

nugget369

The face appears flawless and the strike is sharp, nice toning too. Looks like a MS66 to me but I will venture to guess that NGC was conservative here and gave it only a 64.

DennisH

Looks like MS67, but not PL because of the reverse.

DCAMFranklin

I'll say NGC gave the coin a MS-66PL grade.

I think it deserves a grade of MS-66.

jbsteven

67 all day

Steve27

NGC grade MS66
My grade: MS67PL

Numismanic

NGC 65,
Should grade MS66

Don

poorguy

Ok. On average you guys think that NGC graded this coin MS64-MS66pl. Some of you got it right on the nose. I believe you recognized the early ngc holder and knew about the conservative grading. Most of you believed this coin should grade in the range of MS66-MS67pl.

NGC grade: MS65
Average grade from members: MS66-MS67pl.

Here is the full picture with the coin in the slab.

cointagious

beautiful coin, poorguy, regardless on the grade assigned.

jhar

Yeah, i agree!! Nice Coin!!

remumc

My guess from the photos and your description,

NCG MS64*, my guess after crack out and submission to PCGS MS66PL.

Regards,

Wayne

poorguy

I am going to use one of my 4 free submissions to pcgs and submit this coin. Should I crack it out? or do a crossover?

Goldfinger

It's a great coin no matter the grade. I guessed 65PL because I couldn't tell if the bit of cloudiness was the coin, the slab, or the scan. Personally, I'd crack it. Keep us posted!

DickyBetz

So did you ever cross it over to PCGS? If so, what did it grade?

JSsson

I say MS66.

TorinoCobra71

Hey Dicky -

I recently posted a pair of fat slab NGC holders that had the same morgan (1879-S) had the same features of this coin and everyone told me NOT to crack it out and send it in......go figure....

TorinoCobra71

IrishMike

If you think it will upgrade crack it. Otherwise you will get a DNC.

poorguy

Not sure why this thread got pulled up but PCGS initially graded it MS65. I sold it to a board member and they informed me that it was now in an MS66 holder at PCGS.

Bear