I don't really see a need for additional grades, but I fear it's inevitable anyway. Actually, I bet they start using half-point grades in MS before they add any more grades for circulated coins.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
What are some grades that should be added to the scale to more accurately distinguish coins of differing quality?
Since NONE of the services have the ability to accurately and consistently grade coins using all the different grades now they should eliminate many of the middle grades (ask anyone who has submitted a coin 3 or more times and received different grades each time). There is no need for many in-between grades like F15, VF25 & 35, XF45, AU55, MS62, MS64 & MS66 because they are way to subjective and strictly the opinion of the grader ON THAT DAY and can and do change. Third party grading is a good concept but has never and will never live up to the original concept of placing a definitive value (being able to trade sight unseen) on every coin graded. Again just ask anyone who has submitted a coin more then one time to the same service (not a different service) and received different grades each time. Has third party grading helped collectors?? Absolutely, but it has just spawned a new industry for the con men who resubmit coins many times until it is finally overgraded (or in their opinion finally graded like they want). If the services would just confirm that the piece is authentic and not harshly cleaned and put their opinion MS63 or MS65 etc. then let the buyer decide the value using their opinion of the eye appeal (god forbid we would ask the collector to use their own brain) things would be better for everyone accept the grading services of course as they would lose a LARGE portion of their revenue since the number of resubmissions would drop so it is safe to say it will never happen. We now return you to your regularly scheduled conflicts.
Maybe we could have AG03.75 for those 1916-D coins that just miss the 04 but are high end 03!. LOL We have enough grades, your still buying the coin and not what the holder says, aren't you?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
A computerized system could (theoretically) assign a technical grade to whatever precision the market demands. So, if you wanted to see an AU59, or an AU58.7 it could be done.
(Note: this would be a technical grade only. Other factors that enhance or detract from eye appeal are subjective and would not be considered.)
Now, as to whether this should be done... I don't personally see a need for it.
Yes, we don't need more grades. We seem to have enough problems with applying consistent standards to the grades we already have.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
People complain with times on submissions now! Try to get a grader to fine cut a grade in 15 seconds or less. We just extended submission times by another 30 days!
HEAD TUCKED AND ROLLING ALONG ENJOYING THE VIEW! [Most people I know!]
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!! Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
I totally agree that we have enough grades currently. The 10 (11 with 70) point mintstate scale is suffient, as well as the circulated scale. What I would like to see is a better pricing data by all the publications to differentiate between Au-50 and Au-58, as well as MS-60 thru 63. There needs to be a better job done here on investigating current pricing trends as well as education on the specifics of this grade range as it relates to a specific series.
In several cases, but not all, prices of Au-58 coins should be listed higher than Ms-60 listings. However, In some series like Morgan $, there is a specific reason why Ms-60 takes a significant jump on certain dates, and that is becuase the threshold of "Is it truly and UNC coin, regardless of the eye-appeal" or has it seen the slightest bit of circulation. Dates like the 95-O are quite scarce in true MS, but quite numerous in slider AU's. And this is where the collecting public has a hard time determining if that Nice eye-appealing 95-o is more in demand and should it command a higher value than say a baggy Ms-60 coin that is technically uncircualted, but far more scarcer? In this specific date, I would say NO, but others definitley a yes!
There are several series that I would much rather have a truly eye-popping Au-58 than a MS-61 I can think of several Indian head cents in this category as well as Buffalo nickels.
<< <i>What I would like to see is a better pricing data by all the publications to differentiate between Au-50 and Au-58, as well as MS-60 thru 63. >>
The only valid pricing data is, IMHO, actual sales. You need to scour eBay, Teletrade, Heritage, and whereever else to find out what coins are really selling for, rather than some fiction published by PCGS or whomever.
Let me link you something interesting, from the world of Magic: The Gathering:
What they've done is written a program that collects data from eBay and collates it into a fairly useful price guide. For example:
Card Price StdDev Average High Low Change Raw N ---- ----- ------ ------- ------- ------ ------ ----- Academy Rector, 4.21, 1.27, 3.91, 5.51, 0.49, 0.00, 65
This tells me that for the card named "Academy Rector" there were 65 successful eBay auctions, with a low price of 49c and a high price of $5.51. The average price is $3.91, and the recommended "price" if you were selling one would be $4.21 (a number determined by a formula too arcane for this discussion).
It seems to me that if a bunch of Magic geeks can put together an absolutely useful resource such as this, it would be no problem for Coin folk to do a similar project.
for closed-collar strikes, get rid of g-6, vg-10, f-15, vf-25, vf-35, xf-45, au-53, 58, ms-61, 62, 64, 66. grading services are just blatantly not capable of being consistent enough for such grades.
on open-collars, here are the only grades they should assing:
I'd like to see AU 59, 60, 61, 62, and 63 for gem coins with a touch of rub on the highpoints.
I'd like to see MS 65.5, 66.5, and 67.5 for "liner" coins where the whole point is too big a price jump,
for example, if an MS 65 peace dollar is $1,000, and an MS66 is $10,000, you could have an MS 65.5 that would be worth around $4000 or $5000 or $6000.
I'd like to see a grade that reflects "surface preservation" broken out of the composite grade for coins with fantastic originality or attractive toning, and such a scale might go up to 75 or so.
There are too many grades. How about a High AU (BU with rub) and a Low AU (actually shows wear)? I do think there should be split grades for the Obv. and reverse, say over MS 65 or 66.
Time to go to the 0-100 scale. Special discounts for re-grades. All new pop reports. More opportunity to pay for grading. Less to waste on coins. RAH !!!
Or a "Preferred" designation to existing grades. Turn up the volume.
Maybe a really BIG slab to grade slabs so the old ones will still exist, but inside NEW ones that are at "introductory" rates.
Comments
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Personally, I don't think AU65 is reasonable, nevertheless, we could see AU65 and AU66 in the market.
MS64 1/2, MS65 1/2
The PQ grades.
Since NONE of the services have the ability to accurately and consistently grade coins using all the different grades now they should eliminate many of the middle grades (ask anyone who has submitted a coin 3 or more times and received different grades each time). There is no need for many in-between grades like F15, VF25 & 35, XF45, AU55, MS62, MS64 & MS66 because they are way to subjective and strictly the opinion of the grader ON THAT DAY and can and do change. Third party grading is a good concept but has never and will never live up to the original concept of placing a definitive value (being able to trade sight unseen) on every coin graded. Again just ask anyone who has submitted a coin more then one time to the same service (not a different service) and received different grades each time. Has third party grading helped collectors?? Absolutely, but it has just spawned a new industry for the con men who resubmit coins many times until it is finally overgraded (or in their opinion finally graded like they want). If the services would just confirm that the piece is authentic and not harshly cleaned and put their opinion MS63 or MS65 etc. then let the buyer decide the value using their opinion of the eye appeal (god forbid we would ask the collector to use their own brain) things would be better for everyone accept the grading services of course as they would lose a LARGE portion of their revenue since the number of resubmissions would drop so it is safe to say it will never happen.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled conflicts.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
a way to milk more $ from the xash cows.
Alex
Collecting Morgans in Any Grade
(Note: this would be a technical grade only. Other factors that enhance or detract from eye appeal are subjective and would not be considered.)
Now, as to whether this should be done... I don't personally see a need for it.
there is no way that a 50 should even be close to about uncirculated or almost uncirculated
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
In several cases, but not all, prices of Au-58 coins should be listed higher than Ms-60 listings. However, In some series like Morgan $, there is a specific reason why Ms-60 takes a significant jump on certain dates, and that is becuase the threshold of "Is it truly and UNC coin, regardless of the eye-appeal" or has it seen the slightest bit of circulation. Dates like the 95-O are quite scarce in true MS, but quite numerous in slider AU's. And this is where the collecting public has a hard time determining if that Nice eye-appealing 95-o is more in demand and should it command a higher value than say a baggy Ms-60 coin that is technically uncircualted, but far more scarcer? In this specific date, I would say NO, but others definitley a yes!
There are several series that I would much rather have a truly eye-popping Au-58 than a MS-61 I can think of several Indian head cents in this category as well as Buffalo nickels.
<< <i>What I would like to see is a better pricing data by all the publications to differentiate between Au-50 and Au-58, as well as MS-60 thru 63. >>
The only valid pricing data is, IMHO, actual sales. You need to scour eBay, Teletrade, Heritage, and whereever else to find out what coins are really selling for, rather than some fiction published by PCGS or whomever.
Let me link you something interesting, from the world of Magic: The Gathering:
MTG Price Guide
What they've done is written a program that collects data from eBay and collates it into a fairly useful price guide. For example:
Card Price StdDev Average High Low Change Raw N
---- ----- ------ ------- ------- ------ ------ -----
Academy Rector, 4.21, 1.27, 3.91, 5.51, 0.49, 0.00, 65
This tells me that for the card named "Academy Rector" there were 65 successful eBay auctions, with a low price of 49c and a high price of $5.51. The average price is $3.91, and the recommended "price" if you were selling one would be $4.21 (a number determined by a formula too arcane for this discussion).
It seems to me that if a bunch of Magic geeks can put together an absolutely useful resource such as this, it would be no problem for Coin folk to do a similar project.
<< <i>Yes, we don't need more grades. We seem to have enough problems with applying consistent standards to the grades we already have. >>
Totally agree. In fact, we have TOO MANY MS grades as it is....
jom
for closed-collar strikes, get rid of g-6, vg-10, f-15, vf-25, vf-35, xf-45, au-53, 58, ms-61, 62, 64, 66. grading services are just blatantly not capable of being consistent enough for such grades.
on open-collars, here are the only grades they should assing:
poor, fair, ag, good, fine, xf, ms-60, ms-63, ms-65, ms-67, TEN SIMPLE grades.
K S
I'd like to see MS 65.5, 66.5, and 67.5 for "liner" coins where the whole point is too big a price jump,
for example, if an MS 65 peace dollar is $1,000, and an MS66 is $10,000, you could have an MS 65.5 that would be worth around $4000 or $5000 or $6000.
I'd like to see a grade that reflects "surface preservation" broken out of the composite grade for coins with fantastic originality or attractive toning, and such a scale might go up to 75 or so.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Sometimes older and simpler is better
Or a "Preferred" designation to existing grades. Turn up the volume.
Maybe a really BIG slab to grade slabs so the old ones will still exist, but inside NEW ones that are at "introductory" rates.
Or...or....or.....