It was a NGC holder so I posted it there but not many of you read that board. Pretty cool because former & current NGC graders have provided some insight. Text
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Educational, the coin looks so so to me. I never would have guessed a mark that big and where it is located would garner a 64. I can understand his reasoning, but then why do planchet flaws get bagged?
Thanks for the heads up, only a couple of comments, as yet, but very, very interesting reading thanks to the input of current and past NGC staff graders.
Also a great advertisement for not buying sight unseen or without full return privileges.
The return priviledge is a non issue regardless of what Jim Maben said. I was trying to gain some insight on NGC Peace toners. Hey I learned a thing or 2.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Actually, I love that coin and wish now that I would have bid higher, I just didn't see the rainbow effect to the crescent -- very nice and natural. Well if you are so picky, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.
As to your question, the staple market is bothersome, but I can see where it gets a 64.
I for one would rather have the 64 grade determined by a single mark than a bunch of marks that give Liberty a cat scratched look, but that one is really BIG.
I once was offered a beautiful 1873 trade dollar by B&M. It had gorgeous MS66 surfaces but also a big gash (yes, a gash) above the eagle's head. This canyon was at least three times as significant at that staple scratch. I almost bought it because the balance of the coin was so nice, but decided that the gash would bother me too much.
If you click the link for the larger image of my current sig coin, you'll see an example of a very pretty coin with a large vertical scratch across the side of Jefferson's face. I have another just like this in at PCGS, but I didn't submit this one for grading because I was worried it would get body-bagged for the scratch.
I posted my thoughts on the coin over on NGC. I will say that crescents on Peace Dollars are scarce. What are you going to do with the coin Dog? Going to keep it or try to return it?
I agree with the MS-64 grade that this coin received. Yes the mark is obvious, but given the look of the rest of the coin, the grade is accurate. This is an example of why people like to look at coins before they buy them and why sight unseen bids are lower than sight seen bids.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
It works better for me if I look at what a common date MS64 Peace dollar sells for. I think it's about $40.00, give or take. I then look at that coin and honestly believe it's worth twice that amount.
I know what you mean regarding the overall grade of MS64, and certainly you're right- but if you take into consideration the overall eye appeal it is easily an "MS64" (ie: $40.00+ coin).
I'll be keeping the coin unless I sell it some day. I'm not THAT picky that I trouble myself and my dealer by returning a $39 coin. If it were a $500 coin, it would be headed back already. You can look at the auction and tell it was a good listing Text I was just surprised at the depth of a dig NGC allows on a MS64. Interesting threads though, I can tell from the replys who grades technically & hardcore like I do and those of you who are on current standards.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Looks like the Old School technical graders are losing this debate. The Flaw is huge but the Appeal is also huge. For forty bucks its a keeper even though its a lower grade than stated on the slab.
Just for kicks what would have the grade been before slabbing started in the 80's ? I would say MS63 and thats it.
I once was offered a beautiful 1873 trade dollar by B&M. It had gorgeous MS66 surfaces but also a big gash (yes, a gash) above the eagle's head. This canyon was at least three times as significant at that staple scratch. I almost bought it because the balance of the coin was so nice, but decided that the gash would bother me too much.
I remember that coin, and passed on it for the same reason. When I saw the obv, I got a pleasurable physical reaction. Then I flipped it over, and got the opposite physical reaction!
I certainly hope people are paying attention to this. The only slabs I have ever returned were four NGC slabs, from four different sellers, for this exact reason. In Dog's case, no big deal because of the crescent which is rare on a Peace Dollar. If this had been a better date white coin, and it were me, it would have been flying back to the seller at warp speed. This coin is in no way, shape, or form a 64, and I don't care how clean the rest of the coin is. That gouge on the cheek makes this coin no better than a 63 IMHO, and that is 26 years of experience with them.
Let's see now, some AT is "market acceptable" and it's okay to have a huge gouge across Liberty's face as long as it has some cresent toning. I guess this newbie has not accepted the concept of "market grading" yet. What is next? And does it not defeat the purpose of sight unseen? It seems to me that this concept is a shifting target and allows for the grading service's inconsistency. Oh, how soon does this concept of "market grading" evolve?
BTW, I am a Peace Dollar collector and have learned the hard way never to buy a Peace Dollar without a return. Could I interest you in some ugly Peace Dollars?
I'm with you. I hate market grading also; adamantly opposed to grading a coin base on its value. I'm supposed to get an idea of its "state of preservation," moreso than how much its worth.
And BTW, I also think there is simply to many marks in the face for that coin to garner a grade of MS64. Yes, it is a lustrous and OVERALL there don't appear to be too many marks, but too many marks in one area; the prime focal area.
Comments
Also a great advertisement for not buying sight unseen or without full return privileges.
Market Grading = Be Afraid
z
I was trying to gain some insight on NGC Peace toners. Hey I learned a thing or 2.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
As to your question, the staple market is bothersome, but I can see where it gets a 64.
Michael
Maybe you can remove it with a laser.
CG
The coin was PCGS MS64.
Should I have submitted it anyway?
Russ, NCNE
I know what you mean regarding the overall grade of MS64, and certainly you're right- but if you take into consideration the overall eye appeal it is easily an "MS64" (ie: $40.00+ coin).
peacockcoins
Interesting threads though, I can tell from the replys who grades technically & hardcore like I do and those of you who are on current standards.
Just for kicks what would have the grade been before slabbing started in the 80's ? I would say MS63 and thats it.
Ken
roadrunner
I remember that coin, and passed on it for the same reason. When I saw the obv, I got a pleasurable physical reaction. Then I flipped it over, and got the opposite physical reaction!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
BTW, I am a Peace Dollar collector and have learned the hard way never to buy a Peace Dollar without a return. Could I interest you in some ugly Peace Dollars?
Collecting Dollars
I'm with you. I hate market grading also; adamantly opposed to grading a coin base on its value. I'm supposed to get an idea of its "state of preservation," moreso than how much its worth.
And BTW, I also think there is simply to many marks in the face for that coin to garner a grade of MS64. Yes, it is a lustrous and OVERALL there don't appear to be too many marks, but too many marks in one area; the prime focal area.
Shoulda' maxed out at 63.