I need a colonial expert

agentjim007

OK...so whats the big deal about this one
Thanks
Don't have a clue

kranky

While we're waiting for a colonial expert to stop by, I'll just throw out that the Red Book covers a few varieties of NJ coppers, and none of them even approach that kind of money in Good, let alone Filler. Either this is some rare variety or the buyer overpaid is all I can figure.

ANACONDA

That's the rare earless mule variety, not really a horse like all the rest. Very rare.

NumisEd

Wow. That appears to be an unlisted variety. It just can't be. It can't be. The next time you see something like this on ebay, please notify us sooner so that we can bid.

Also, if you want dateless New Jersey coppers just for type, just PM me. I have dozens in my collection.

HillbillyJim

No clue on this one?...

Singapore

I'm not a NJ expert per se, and I did not study the photo at length, but it sure looks like a Maris 72-z to me, which is rare. There might be 20 or so known.

I assume you know that there are a small number (compared to Morgan Dollar collectors) of NJ copper collectors out there who pay large sums of money and collect these coins by die variety. Check Coinfacts web site under NJ coppers for a list of the 100+ varieties with lots of rarity rankings and photos.

Incidentally, the Redbook is not a good reference for pricing these coins in general, as it groups rare and common Maris varieties into types at one not very realistic price level.

But back to the coin in question - an XF example in Stacks January 2001 auction of the William O'Donnell collection sold for $20,700, and that coin was pretty crude. A second coin in that sale in Fine realized $3680.

I believe the buyer knew exactly what he was buying.

abuell

The picture isn't great, but it appears to be a Maris 73-aa struck over (I believe) a Connecticut copper.

NumisEd

The picture isn't great, but it appears to be a Maris 73-aa struck over (I believe) a Connecticut copper.

I though the same at first, but look very, very closely. It's real close.......but no cigar.

agentjim007

Wow. That appears to be an unlisted variety. It just can't be. It can't be. The next time you see something like this on ebay, please notify us sooner so that we can bid.
Is serious or pulling my leg? I bid up to 60 bucks I didn't think it was anything or I would have let you know. You would have beat that bid?

Singapore

Assuming abuell is right, and he certainly knows more than I do about these coins, O'Donnells XF of 73-aa sold for $8050. That one was also pretty crude.

If NumisEd is right, and he also certainly knows more about these than I do, and this is unlisted (which would be pretty perceptive in my opinion based on that photo) then this might be worth, what would you guess Ed - $20K or so?

So, yes, I'd say a bid over $60 might be OK.

dorkkarl

i can't find it either. fascinating reverse! if unlisted, the coin is a five-digit coin. dang!!! i need to get back on ebay.

K S

abuell

In order to get some really expert opinions I posted the link on the colonial coins egroup. Some really ardent New Jersey collectors totally missed the coin because it was listed in the large cent section. It's a M. 73-aa all right and a rather nice one at that. The seller left some real money on the table by listing it in the wrong section.

Singapore

Abuell -

What colonial e group are you referring to?

NumisEd

Again, it is real close to 73-aa, but not quite. I think that abuell is referring to the 73-aa as pictured on page 187 of the Bower's auction of the Taylor collection in 1987. Please note that not all 73-aa varieties are overstrikes. The one that agentjim linked us to is not an overstrike, as far as I tell by the scan. The Taylor catalog shows (3) 73-aa varieties, with one be an erroneous listing (lot 2278). Check it out. The other 2 are correct and are struck over Connecticut coppers. I guess that the ebay coin could be 73-aa, but it is too hard to tell by the scan. It looks like reverse aa, but check out the position of the horse head with the other devices......it's off. Maybe the bidding went so high because it "appears" to be a new variety. Gotta see the coin in person to be sure.

agentjim007

The president of the colonial collectors club just told me its a 73-aa and should have sold for 2-3 times what it sold for. The winner of that auction looks like he new what it was and must be doing a happy dance today.

agentjim007

OH ya he thinks it didn't go for bigger bucks because the seller didn't list it under colonials

NumisEd

73-aa is an R.5 variety, but it appears that they do go for large sums when auctioned, according to prices realized records.

abuell

I finally went to the Maris plate to confirm it. I'd really like to see the coin in the copper. The pictures on eBay do leave a lot to be desired.

abuell

Singapore-

Colonial-coins@egroups.com

It's a very active group. Great friends.

Rob

Cam40

Hope no one minds but I took the liberty of lightening up those scans.
Does this help?
Or this?

agentjim007

Thanks Cam. Looks good. I have to say you have to be super hardcore colonial to call that puppy $2K (or more). Think I'll stick to what I know and buy me a few cheapies for fun.

abuell

Crap, people pay that much for state quarters in MS 85 that I get in pocket change every day! Here you've got a truly rare coin with a wealth of history behind it. It's a really neat product of the Machins Mill operation (Capt. Thos. Machin, he of chaining the Hudson fame) overstruck on a Connecticut copper. By early 1789 the only coppers still circulating were New Jerseys due to the fact that they were still accepted by the state of New Jersey for tax payments. Hence the Machin's people found it profitable to restrike a variety of coppers that would no longer circulate with New Jersey devices and legends and put them into circulation.