My own investigative work:

dwood

After seeing what this forum believes to be good and virtuous work, I have made an effort of my own. This afternoon, I sent an email to eBay asking them to NARU hhh007 (whoever the moron is) for interfering in another member's auctions.

I am also in contact with my Representatives to see if Legislation can be enacted proposing that it be a Federal offense to sell or posess any coin which has not been slabbed. We all know if it isn't in a slab, it isn't worth diddly, and if it is AT, no one should be allowed to own it, buy it, or sell it.

Thank me later, for now we must focus on the next piece of vile, disipicable vermin crying out for extermination!

Death to the Burgeios! Power to the People! RAW coins suck!

maddox

<< <i>
I am also in contact with my Representatives to see if Legislation can be enacted proposing that it be a Federal offense to sell or posess any coin which has not been slabbed. We all know if it isn't in a slab, it isn't worth diddly, and if it is AT, no one should be allowed to own it, buy it, or sell it.

Thank me later, q]

gee, it's gona be tough on the pockets carrying around all that pocket change, oops I mean a pocket of slabs. Whats Pepsi gona do with all the vending machines? Actually, once you think about this, Put a paper buck in and get 4 slabbed quarters out, maybe I'll get lucky and get some 99's

ARCO

Nothing but slabs huh? Ouch!! it is going to suck buying my kids common date circulated mercs that have .35 cents worth of silver for $30.00.

The new american royalty will be the graders at PCGS, NGC and ANACS who will control 8 trillion dollars worth of coins. LOL

Tyler

jbsteven

I hope you are joking about the slab thing

TomB

The "moron" is our Board member, dragon.

Bulldog

dwood,

Hey dude, how ya feeling? I have been following this whole debacle without responding one way or another. What bothers me, is that you have taken this situation on your shoulders and you are reacting emotionally about all this. I have read many of your threads in the past, and you seem to be knowledgable and well grounded. Seems like this Howard Thing has slanted your balance a tad.

Let it roll dude. It aint worth all the grief, and especially allowing someone elses problems to become your history. Let it roll man.

I have no comment on this one, cause enough folks have commented already, and the situation remains the same.

If I liked an AT coin and knew it was AT, I would buy at non toned prices or I would pass. If I bought a toned coin and found out it was AT, I would send it back and not purchase from that seller again, if he intentionally duped me.

I am not my brothers keeper and definately not a member of the coin police. But I am glad that the coin police are alive and well!

Bulldog

jom

<< <i>We all know if it isn't in a slab, it isn't worth diddly, and if it is AT, no one should be allowed to own it, buy it, or sell it. >>



Wait...Wait...don't tell me. You're the sole sharehold of Coin Universe, right? lol

jom

snake

Yes that is just what we need .Pass more LAWS the next thing you know we want be able to go to the BATHROOM without a slab.Full speed ahead there ant no ice in these waters.Snake

cointoast

dwood

You have to understand that board members have the right to E-mail anyone on e-bay that bids on a coin that they believe to be AT and convince them not to buy it and to destroy the seller.

By God that's why we are here.

Dont go makin trouble DWOOD or your next on the list PAL.

You think we destroyed Awswmmer? That's nothing compared to what we will do to you.

Let's getem guys..........

Russ

Anybody else hear a "whooshing" sound?

Russ, NCNE

cointoast

Ah Russ.....The class clown..I was wondering when you would show up!

Bwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Russ

Hey toast,

That's downright hilarious coming from you.

Russ, NCNE

cointoast

Russ.doing a little digging...Please tell me this in not what you look like!!!!!!!

From your website russ lol

Buaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

cointoast

Man Russ.

You could At a Morgan between those teeth lol!~!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you related to Baba Boooey?

CThomas

You are obviously an idiot Toast! You lost your crybaby battle with your pal aswimmer and now your just reaching out for attention!

We see the game your playing!

Nobody cares

I'm Out!!!

Chris

dakra

Toast is looking for attention, what a (*CENSORED*).

Sorry guys, had to say it.

-Dave

dwood

I have compiled and transcribed the entire aswimmer thread, and have catalogued it for future reference. I did take a few liberties in editing and consolidating, but I have remained true to the spirit and tone of our actions and discourse. Those interested may find the transcript Here

dwood

Bulldog,
I appreciate your advice (I sincerely do), but my concern in this matter has absolutely NOTHING to do with coins or AT. This guy was crucified because some folks didn't like what he was selling. Others have said it better than I, but it is clear (and FrattLaw seems to support this in a thread earlier today) that aswimmer NEVER portrayed the coins as legally genuine or original (until he was coerced into a smart reaction). That being given, why in the hell did anyone ever go after this guy in the first place? He was selling coins. He didn't say whether or not they were AT, and he didn't imply whther they were or not either. If being a member of this forum grants us some right to "do as we see fit" with regard to a hobby that encompasses far more than those assembled here, including far superior experts who couldn't find CU much less the Internet, then I feel like exercising my heavenly ordained position as well.

It isn't about coins. Its about a guy selling something on the Internet, AT AUCTION, and a group of people not even party to any transaction ruining this guy for good simply because they think there is no place for his goods in the market. Quite simply, those people are wrong, on several fronts. There IS a market for his goods (AT though they may be), and he DOES have a RIGHT to sell them to whomever choses to buy. It isn't any of our business.

IrishMike

David you need to back up a bit and take a deep breath. I could care less if anyone wants to peddle that worthless junk on Ebay. This guy came in here and blatantly lied, thinking we were stupid enough to swallow his crap. He used his grandfathers death as a way to try and sell his coins. He left a trail of books, chemicals, coins, ovens and other equipment that a five year old could have uncovered. Then when he got caught he lied some more by changing the photo and then denying it. He lied in his auction description by stating that he had given full disclosure. To try to support his lies, he either manufactured two more identities or convinced two more people to post for him.

You then compound this mess by calling us a lynch mob. Well dude shame on you, this is far worse than anyone accused this guy of. Don't take the high and mighty with us while using terms like you did. You never did answer my question about his full disclosure. This wasn't about a guy selling crap on Ebay, it was about him pissing down our backs and telling us it was raining. You bought it bud and now you are blaming us for your anger. This isn't like you as I have read many of your posts and found them to be interesting and thoughtful. So take a deep breath and let this one go.

gsaguy

David,

I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that aswimmer NEVER portrayed the coins as legally genuine. He answered the questions of several forum members (who could easily have been potential bidders for all he knew) about how he toned the coins with a statement that basically said, "oh no, these coins are originally toned, they're from dear old grandpa's collection of toned dollars". This was well before his bidders were contacted or any of this really blew up on the forum.

Then, a day or so later in the another thread, he's caught red-handed with a recorded auction purchase of a white coin on ebay that shows up in one of his auctions 2 weeks later, totally toned.....and of course, as stated in the auction....it's out of dear old dead grandpa's toned collection.

I agree that contacting his bidders crossed the line and was wrong for a variety of reasons. But to continue to assert that he was mistreated out of proportion to what he did, and continued to do long after posting to this forum, I just don't believe to be the case.

I also agree with you that some people may just want to own artifically toned coins. And when a seller sells them as such, I've got no beef with him. But when a seller attempts to sell an artifically toned coin as 'natural', 'genuine', or out of 'grandpa's toned collection' when he knows good and well that it's none of the above, I believe it IS his intent to defraud someone out of some of their hard earned dollars. And frankly, I've got a problem with that.

GSAGUY

IrishMike....pissing down our backs and telling us it's raining. I do believe that is the most situation-appropriate comment that has been made in these many threads.

SarasotaFrank

I had a fellow ask me why I was giving up serious collecting.

I ought to just route him to any of these threads.

cointoast

Send him over SFrank...........We need fresh blood to attack...........

Does he own an oven? Maybe some household cleaning product?

We will make sure he's taken care of..........

oilydog

CoinToast! Do you like your coins toasty? Or maybe do you toast coins? Some people might begin to wonder. Its a common tactic for the rats to squeal when they are uncovered. Its a common tactic for someone who is less than honest to deflect attention and try to intimidate people by accusing them of being "brownshirts" or "witchhunters" or some other dogmatic cliche'! Why dont you burn yourself out and stuff it. I dont think anyone here wants to hear any more of your intimidating remarks.

cointoast

Hmmmmmm OILYDOG...

Only 15 posts? That makes youy SUSPECT my friend.

So who are you really?

RUSS???????? Bwaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EVillageProwler

Cointoast,

You're obsessing. I really think you should move on and focus on what makes numismatics pleasurable for you... Enjoy the hobby; don't get all wrapped up in whatever is making you so negative.

EVP

Coppernicus

dwood - It's not a slab vs. raw issue but a respect for numismatics. This (and other sellers) are hawking severely altered pieces as authentic, long, slow, natural toning. Those of us with experience and a respect for the hobby can recognize this junk for what it is. The problem is the newbies who are getting screwed. That's just not good for our hobby. May the AT coin "doctors" (read "slimeballs") rot in hell for destroying the joy of collecting.

ASwimmer

Irish Mike,

How dare you say I used my Grandfathers death to sell fake coins. You are ascum sucking pompos idiot and I am really ticked at you for saying that. I swear if you were standing right here I would take you apart for saying that.

You are the worst

cointoast

Smooth move IrishMike....Maybe he has a few other dead family members for you to bash.... But what the hey...It's not your family right?

dwood

Ok...whatever. I just think there are more than a few elitists here, who think that however they perceive the hobby is how everyone should perceive the hobby. I don't agree with that, but then, I only own one coin with an established value over $1000. So, as you can see, I'm not a "real collector" and should simply accept what is stated here as fact, with no consideration or interpretation. So aswimmer is unquestionably, undoubtedly, most assuredly a complete scumbag? Got it! (Has someone already notified PCGS that his coins are not to be slabbed, under any circumstance, or should I draft the letter for approval)?

Suppose that Alan gets just one of these coins back in a slab from PCGS (I know....never happen....PCGS NEVER makes mistakes...but humor me). Is there ANYONE here, who can envision ANYONE here actually apologizing to Mr. Swimmer? Or better yet, can you even envision a slabbed Swimmer coin being accepted as genuine? Or are you like me, and believe with all your heart, that if the coin did come back slabbed, there would be accusations that "it isn't the same coin," or "PCGS made a mistake," or "He's one hell of a coin doctor to get THAT thing in a slab!" (Keep in mind, he isn't going to send in the one we've been arguing over the past 3 days, but one of the others he listed).

But again, for me, the problem had nothing to do with coins. It had to do with a perception which then instigated action, leading to reactions, etc, etc, etc. And if you think this wasn't EXACTLY like a witch hunt, you aren't very familiar with witch hunts.

I'm off to eBay to create my 2nd id, and I'll not mention this again.

Aren't the emporer's clothes so beautiful!?!?

northcoin

aswimmer - Did you ever post the requested photo of the "two" coins side by side with yesterday's date paper?

gemtone65

Dwood seems to think that Aswimmer did nothing improper in his auctions, since Swimmer never said his coins were genuine or original. This is really a silly position. Any such product being sold as a collectible gets its value from being genuine and original. It is not expectd that a seller must say that the item meets those criteria. It is implied in the contract. Rather, it is up to the seller to notify bidders when he is aware that the item is not genuine or original. (The same notion holds for a variety of products, e.g., used cars.) And, I think a very strong case has been made that not only did Swimmer know the coins were not original, he helped them achieve that state. So, I see no logical basis to support Dwood's position.

tompkins

<< <i>Only 15 posts? That makes youy SUSPECT my friend. >>

Cointoast;
Anyone you don't know, or who disagrees with you seems to be "suspect" in your mind.

Pete