Wow, that's a wild one Mike. Not one that I would have much interest in, but I can see the attraction. Don't think it can go 66 as the seller claims with the obverse spot between the C and the A of AMERICA and the weakly struck diamonds.
<< <i>Holy crap! Yet another example of why this toning stuff confuses the hell out of me.
Russ, NCNE >>
........if it isnt red they put brown on the holder, even though it is blue...or it could be green, or it could be blue and green...or it could be red and blue or it could be green and red, or it could be green and blue......see how simple it is, confused? whos confused?
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
What I meant was that the AT vs natural toning issue confuses me. I'd look at a coin like that and, if it weren't slabbed, I'd think for sure it was fake. I don't think I'm ever going to get this stuff.
How the heck does copper turn that color? I'm with Russ on this one... if it weren't slabbed I'd never entertain the thought that it's real un-aided toning.
I believe that this is an example of a coin that was stored in mint tissue for a substantial length of time. One thing to keep in mind is that even though you may not be familiar with this type of toning on proof copper there is still a long history of proof copper toning this way. So, it's a look that toning fanatics know as real.
Russ, Clark there is no easy answer to the question of real versus accelerated toning. Tom is correct in his analysis. Proof IHC's develope this color, along with purples, golds, oranges and reds do to being stored with the mint tissue paper. They have been around for along time and are not only accepted in the market place but more beautiful to behold in person. You hold one of these beauties under a flourescent light and the colors and luster boom off the mirrors.
You have to know the toning history of a particular series such as Morgans, IHC proofs to say to yourself, yeah I have seen the kind of pattern, color etc. before.
i do not think that these blue toned proof indians are the result of oriignal mint tissue tonigg not at all!!!!!!!!!!
now the purple iridescent toned proof indians are from mint tissue the hard tissue
BUT THE BLUE TONED PROOFS like this one in the auction is due to envelope toning!!!!!!!!!!!! nothing more nothing less
sincerely michael
i do not think this coin is a proof 66 coin at all becUSE OF THE spots on the reverse the overall look of this coin is a 65
now the reason why the services call these blue color proofs or other wonderfully colored proofs brown is not that the coin is btoen juast a term meaning the coin has NO ORIGINAL RED LEFT
yes i am sure most brown indians are butt ugly and are for the most part brown in color but this brown designation from the services means this coin has little to no trace of original red color!
the blue c9olor proofs like this coin in the auction are the most available color of all the colored indian proofs but are one of the most beautiful nonetheless now usually these blue toned proof coins are not blue both sides but maybe one side is blue and the other is not or both sides are not the overall consistant color of blue like this coin in the ebay auction but is like mostly blue with other colors
now it is not common the find a proof indian with blue like this mostly all blue both sides!
the rarest colored indian cent proof you can get in my opinion is like a sea green color indian
and most of these colored indian head proof cents for the most part have bluehighlightrs due to them all being envelope toned i think the green ones are velvet/plush toned boing in some sort of case or cabinet which was plush or velver lined
but from many old timers who were coin dealers in the 1930's and 40's they tell me that the blue toned proof indians are envelops toning NOT ORIGINAL MINT TISSUE TONING!
this was years ago in the late 60's and early 70's when these men were alive as all i have known have passed away
even walter breen and he is i think right in his accessment of thesw mint tissue toned proofs from the wayte raymond estate distributed 9in the 1950's and early 60's all the mint tissue toned coins
especially so the 1884 mintage are quoted from his encyclopedia of usa coins that big telephone book
wonderfully iridescent with that purple tinge! not at all blue toned
as again the blue toning this ceretian shade and color as it appears in the auction is from envelkope toning!!
coppercoins may have hit the nail on the head - But as a long time Lincoln guy, I know that copper can do some really strange things without "artificial" help. Intriguing coin.
Coppernicus
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
The coin is graded a 65 and in my opinion probably correctly. Looks like a 64.5 that got bumped due to the toning. I've not heard the envelope theory before Michael, thanks for the information. Michael, brown IHC's are beautiful to some of us also.
Sure would bve fun to see in person. Mike, if you buy it, may I borrow it for a weekend (I'll pay the postage!!)
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Only if you submitted it as "cross at any grade" - then it may have a chance.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Comments
The holder says it brown
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Dan
<>< ~~~
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Holy crap! Yet another example of why this toning stuff confuses the hell out of me.
Russ, NCNE >>
........if it isnt red they put brown on the holder, even though it is blue...or it could be green, or it could be blue and green...or it could be red and blue or it could be green and red, or it could be green and blue......see how simple it is, confused? whos confused?
<< <i>The holder says it brown
No it says BN...BN stands for Blue Neon!
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
What I meant was that the AT vs natural toning issue confuses me. I'd look at a coin like that and, if it weren't slabbed, I'd think for sure it was fake. I don't think I'm ever going to get this stuff.
Russ, NCNE
How the heck does copper turn that color? I'm with Russ on this one... if it weren't slabbed I'd never entertain the thought that it's real un-aided toning.
HOW???
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
You have to know the toning history of a particular series such as Morgans, IHC proofs to say to yourself, yeah I have seen the kind of pattern, color etc. before.
<< <i>if it weren't slabbed I'd never entertain the thought that it's real un-aided toning. >>
And I wonder why people so blindly trust slabbing. I still say it isn't original no matter what they say.
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now the purple iridescent toned proof indians are from mint tissue the hard tissue
BUT THE BLUE TONED PROOFS like this one in the auction is due to envelope toning!!!!!!!!!!!! nothing more nothing less
sincerely michael
i do not think this coin is a proof 66 coin at all becUSE OF THE spots on the reverse the overall look of this coin is a 65
now the reason why the services call these blue color proofs or other wonderfully colored proofs brown is not that the coin is btoen juast a term meaning the coin has NO ORIGINAL RED LEFT
yes i am sure most brown indians are butt ugly and are for the most part brown in color but this brown designation from the services means this coin has little to no trace of original red color!
sincerely michael
now it is not common the find a proof indian with blue like this mostly all blue both sides!
the rarest colored indian cent proof you can get in my opinion is like a sea green color indian
and most of these colored indian head proof cents for the most part have bluehighlightrs due to them all being envelope toned i think the green ones are velvet/plush toned boing in some sort of case or cabinet which was plush or velver lined
but from many old timers who were coin dealers in the 1930's and 40's they tell me that the blue toned proof indians are envelops toning NOT ORIGINAL MINT TISSUE TONING!
this was years ago in the late 60's and early 70's when these men were alive as all i have known have passed away
since the early 1980's and before
sincerely michael
especially so the 1884 mintage are quoted from his encyclopedia of usa coins that big telephone book
wonderfully iridescent with that purple tinge! not at all blue toned
as again the blue toning this ceretian shade and color as it appears in the auction is from envelkope toning!!
sincerely michael
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!