Spanish Netherlands Brabant (Antwerp) 1629 ducaton - anyone well-versed on Philip IIII 1620s dates?

realeswatcher

Picked this up several years back out of Spain... Spanish Netherlands (modern Belgium) 1629 ducaton/ducatoon (note not a fraction or a multiple), Antwerp/Anvers mint (hand mintmark) as opposed to Brussels.

Philip IIII ducatons are a common type in general, a ton have come from Dutch VOC shipwrecks (as this would appear to be), BUT... the thing is that the 1620s dates appear to be QUITE scarce, even rare. I can't find a single 1620s Brabant ducaton (either mint) in the usual searchable online auction archives - ACsearch, Sixbid, Heritage/Stack's, eBay... nothing out of Sedwick or Aureo Calico either. Have tried Googling various dates and spellings, nothing else coming up.

Given that, it makes sense that there seems to be confusion about what 1620s dates/mints actually exist. The Numista entry notes: "The date list is based on Van Gelder & Hoc, including the corrections in the supplement, and differs significantly from the date list in Krause (KM).". That seems to be on the Newman portal but "not available" for viewing.

Lumping those sources together, it seems the possibly known 1620s dates for Brabant could be:
1622
1623
1624
1628
1629

There is conflict on which mint any of those dates would be from... so let's assume any of those years could be either Antwerp or Brussels or even both.

So does anyone have any specific knowledge/sources about these 1620s dates? Other references, auction appearances, or even any photos of other examples? I figure I could eventually try contacting Elsen or even Schulman or Heritage Europe (fka MPO), but trying this first.

***EDIT - More specifically regarding possible dates... as you can see, these lists DO indeed vary greatly.

Krause/NGC shows the following if you search their database... but note it only provides a line entry for 1624 Brussels:
1622 Antwerp
1623 Antwerp
1624 Brussels
1629 Brussels

Numista says the date list shown is van Gelder and Hoc... also notes Vanhoudt and Delmonte (plus Krause) as references:
1623 Brussels
1624 Brussels
1628 Antwerp
1629 Brussels

coinkat

My comments below are not exactly on point for dates in the 1620s, however you might find this helpful in general. The coin above is an earlier type of the same denomination and I believe it to be comparable to dates from the 1620s in terms of rarity- perhaps even more so. I am not an expert on these as I own 3 and have submitted 2 to our host for grading. I will share my thoughts for what they are worth:

The inconsistent quality on these coins makes them a challenge to grade. I see the rarity in terms of quality as well as finding well struck and original examples in a reasonable grade. The reverse has a terrific design with the lions however the design cannot be completely appreciated based on the quality. The one I have posted is 1 of 5 graded by our host and so happens to be the highest graded by our host. The other I had graded was a 1653- if I recall correctly- and graded in the AU spectrum. I will look for an image to share. That one is very similar to the one you posted.

realeswatcher

I believe it to be comparable to dates from the 1620s in terms of rarity - perhaps even more so

That's a very nice piece, and certainly as a TYPE the Albert & Isabella pieces are much less plentiful than Philip IIII pieces... but in terms of scarcity of specific dates, 1618 clearly isn't close compared to any of these 1620s dates (whichever ones may actually exist!). There are at least a few dozen 1618 Antwerp examples on ACsearch. Again, I cannot find a SINGLE 1620s Philip IIII example auctioned.

coinkat

As promised, here is an image of the 1653. This coin, graded by out host, is an AU53. One can easily see the issues with quality on this series as the reverse design is weakly struck. I think this one might be the only one graded by our host for the date. While I am not playing up a rarity factor, I suspect the series may not have a large following for various reasons.