GC Auction Ended - Records Set! America the Beautiful 5 oz. Bullion

winesteven

.
Edited after close of GC auction on my three high priced lots.

As noted in my reply much lower down on this thread, about a month ago I completed a deal privately with a collector for all but three of the 56 coins in this set for a price that we each were very happy with. The other three coins, each MS69DMPL First Strike, were: 2012 Hawaiian, 2019 American Memorial (PCGS pop only 3), and 2020 Weir Farm (PCGS pop only 15). I got lucky, as I NETTED over $16,600 for the entire set!

Thanks to those that bid, and congratulations to those that now have the coins from my #1 PCGS Registry set!

Steve

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I have some thoughts, and will share them here. I also have several questions regarding strategies to maximize my return as the seller. In no particular order, here goes:

1. My ATB Bullion 5 oz. set has been tied for #1 Current in the PCGS Registry since 2015. Every one is First Strike, some have a Mercanti signature, and virtually all are MS69DMPL. Not only do I have one of the fifteen 2020 Weir Farm graded MS69DMPL First Strike, but I also have one of the only three 2019 American Memorial graded MS69DMPL First Strike. Now that all coins have been issued, I've decided to sell all of the coins in the set.

2. I think I will do best having Great Collections sell each item.

3. Since September is historically a quiet month for our hobby, I'm thinking of having these listed sometime in October, after the Long Beach show.

4. My biggest concern is there are very few collectors interested in these items. Other than the two conditionally rare items above, most of the others will probably/hopefully sell for around $170 - $220, but that's only if the few collectors interested in these KNOW THEY ARE FOR SALE! Since these are low priced items, I can't really expect GC to spend any money advertising these in advance.

5. I've found in the past if I set a starting price other than $1, it typically scares off bidders. But if some of these items don't have more than one person that wants the item, some of the 56 items might end up selling for $100 - $130 each with the b.p., and I'd hate for that to happen.

6. I can have GC divide these 56 into three separate weekly groups, all starting at the same time, but ending one week apart, with the most desirable ones in the final group. Is this the best way to go?

7. I suspect the 2019 American Memorial MS69DMPL First Strike (pop only 3) will sell for over $2,000, and the 2020 Weir Farm MS69DMPL First Strike (pop only 15), might hit four figures.

8. I don't mind incurring the $3 listing fee, 5% sellers fee, and knowing people reduce their hammer bids to adjust for their hit of the 10% buyers premium. To me, this is better than me taking valuable time trying on my own to sell them individually on the BS&T, and then paying shipping on each item and the new 3.49% PayPal fee.

Here’s a hotlink to my set:

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/bullion-coins/silver-major-sets/america-beautiful-5-oz-silver-quarters-circulation-strikes-2010-present/publishedset/117580

Your thoughts and suggestions on the above? Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Steve

ricko

I cannot help with your decision.... Never sell coins. However, I did look over your set... Very, very nice indeed. Best of luck with your sale. Cheers, RickO

taxmad

Have you found any sales that support your claims for the prices you list in #7? If so - list them there. I agree with your assessment in #4...

winesteven

There’s three sales of the Weir Farm on eBay - two of best offer at $2,395, and one at $3,250, but the offers accepted were less than those prices, but my guess is not a lot less. And that has a pop of 15. The American Memorial I have is a pop of only 3.

Thanks.

Steve

taxmad

Well - eBay seems to be a viable option, especially if you list it with a Buy It Now price that is your 'dream price' and a Best Offer button. If nothing else it will get looks. For all its faults (there are many) eBay still has millions of buyers every day perusing their site.

winesteven

True, but see #8 above. Not only do I not want the sale of these 56 to drag out, and for me to take the time to wrap, ship and deal with buyers individually, but on these two higher priced coins, I'd rather reduce my risk of "unhappy/second thought" purchasers by having GC deal with them. But I do appreciate your suggestions. Thanks.

Steve

MsMorrisine

Definitely ask on the us coin forum

Graded bullion to me is numismatic instead of bullion. There are those that disagree. I think you’ll have more responses there.

-— — —

What are sold prices for the common stuff?

winesteven

Yes, I probably will in a week or so.

As a rough generalization, with the little looking I've done on the GC Coin Auction Archive, the Bullion versions (not the "Collectors" version with the "P" mintmark and sandblast finish) tend to sell for about $170 - $220 or so, including the bp. But typically they are offered only a few different ones at a time. I believe all 56 of mine will be offered all at the beginning, with staggered ends over a three week period.

Steve

MilesWaits

I feel for you, Steve!
This must’ve been a very fun set to compile and I can see where it would be difficult to find the right buyers for the correct market at the correct time for the correct price.
My number one concern for entering into this market, other than close to bullion pricing, is the potential for milk spotting. I don’t wanna rain on your parade, but it scares me to hold these for too long given the potential spotting issues, at any grade.
I wish you the best of luck!

winesteven

Miles - I fully agree, although milk spotting has not been an issue for some reason with the ones I have (thank goodness).

Steve

skier07

I think your biggest problem is #4. I had no idea what ATB stood for.

If they were mine I’d probably consign the entire set to GC and stagger them over 3-4 weeks. I don’t know how many are typically sold every week on GC but you don’t want to flood the GC market.

Alternatively try selling a few of the lower priced ones on eBay ($0.99 auction) or the BST and compare your results with the GC and eBay archives and then decide based what to do with the remainder. I recently sold ~60 Morgans on eBay in $0.99 auctions and was very happy with my results. My coins were in the $100 to 400 range and were overall very nice. I only sold 5-6 coins/week and for me it was fun and it didn’t feel like work. I had two buyers who didn’t pay and no returns so overall it was an easy experience for me.

If you don’t feel like messing yourself with them send everything to GC and once they’re sold they’re someone else’s problem.

pcgscacgold

Sounds like an incredible set. I started out collecting the P mint versions but stopped when the mint issue price went to around $225. Never got back to it. I do watch GC from time to time and some are listed with higher prices but get no bids. I wonder if maybe even 5 sales of 11 or so would be better. As you say, it is not a large group that collects them and silver has been flat for a while now.

You have extremely nice coins. I have no idea how I am one spot ahead of you in Gerry F's Basic Gold type set. You must be holding some back.

winesteven

@skier07 said:
I think your biggest problem is #4. I had no idea what ATB stood for.

If they were mine I’d probably consign the entire set to GC and stagger them over 3-4 weeks. I don’t know how many are typically sold every week on GC but you don’t want to flood the GC market.
...........
If you don’t feel like messing yourself with them, send everything to GC and once they’re sold they’re someone else’s problem.

I fully agree. Thanks.

Steve

winesteven

@pcgscacgold said:
Sounds like an incredible set. I started out collecting the P mint versions but stopped when the mint issue price went to around $225. Never got back to it. I do watch GC from time to time and some are listed with higher prices but get no bids. I wonder if maybe even 5 sales of 11 or so would be better. As you say, it is not a large group that collects them and silver has been flat for a while now.

You have extremely nice coins. I have no idea how I am one spot ahead of you in Gerry F's Basic Gold type set. You must be holding some back.

With Gerry F's set composition, the "No Motto" coins that are required kill me, as I don't own any!

pcgscacgold

In looking at GC very few list the entire 5 coin set for any given year. I wonder why that is? I would think selling all 5 from maybe 2 years per auction would be the way but I guess not. Maybe we can get a spike in silver spot before you put them up. Good luck.

winesteven

While there is currently the 2010 set of 5 being sold as a set, I think selling the coins individually could net a higher amount, but of course it can go either way, dependent fully on what interest is watching that lot(s).

Thanks.

Steve

pcgscacgold

I missed that whole set listing. What I meant was that you don't see 5 listings in a row with all 5 from a given year too often. It is usually just 2 or 3 in a row from say 2019 or 2010, etc.

I agree GC is the best way to go. When I tried selling my 14 P mint coins to a dealer he had little interest at that time.
Tom

winesteven

@pcgscacgold said:
I missed that whole set listing. What I meant was that you don't see 5 listings in a row with all 5 from a given year too often. It is usually just 2 or 3 in a row from say 2019 or 2010, etc.

I agree GC is the best way to go. When I tried selling my 14 P mint coins to a dealer he had little interest at that time.
Tom

Yes, I suspected I may have misunderstood. No doubt having every one in the set appear at once ending over a three week period could hurt me. On the other hand, i really don't want it dragged out.

I'll get Ian's opinion. GC makes out better the higher the hammer prices, as do I.

Thanks.

Steve

MsMorrisine

you might ask if this is uncharted territory for GC.

if so, we might all be divining a best method as we go.

pcgscacgold

Maybe he will suggest putting the big guns out there first for the collectors to go after. It is in GC's best interest for you to do well. Unless you need a fast sale I would not be afraid to put minimums on them. Many seem to have that. It would be awful if some sell for what you could get at the local coin store (melt).

It is pretty wild when you think about that fact that the set is 280 oz of silver. That's a heavy shipment.
Tom

winesteven

@MsMorrisine said:
you might ask if this is uncharted territory for GC.

if so, we might all be divining a best method as we go.

My guess is, it is. As such, we'll all learn something, good or bad, lol.

winesteven

@pcgscacgold said:
Maybe he will suggest putting the big guns out there first for the collectors to go after. It is in GC's best interest for you to do well. Unless you need a fast sale I would not be afraid to put minimums on them. Many seem to have that. It would be awful if some sell for what you could get at the local coin store (melt).

It is pretty wild when you think about that fact that the set is 280 oz of silver. That's a heavy shipment.
Tom

There's no way to tell for sure if putting a $120 starting bid would chase away people who might bid higher if it started at $1. I'll rely on Ian's advice, and keep my fingers crossed. My sense is giving those two special coins the most time listed, to hope to catch more attention of the very few people who might be interested in them.

skier07

@winesteven said:

@pcgscacgold said:
Maybe he will suggest putting the big guns out there first for the collectors to go after. It is in GC's best interest for you to do well. Unless you need a fast sale I would not be afraid to put minimums on them. Many seem to have that. It would be awful if some sell for what you could get at the local coin store (melt).

It is pretty wild when you think about that fact that the set is 280 oz of silver. That's a heavy shipment.
Tom

There's no way to tell for sure if putting a $120 starting bid would chase away people who might bid higher if it started at $1. I'll rely on Ian's advice, and keep my fingers crossed. My sense is giving those two special coins the most time listed, to hope to catch more attention of the very few people who might be interested in them.

Minimums I think decrease overall interest and less people follow and thus fewer bids. I’m only one person but I have never tracked a coin on GC with a minimum. I’ve placed low opening bids to easily follow a coin that interests me and when push comes to shove I’ve made aggressive bids to win the auction when it’s ending.

winesteven

That's what I've heard too. However, if there's a complete lack of interest, the hammer will be below spot! Ugh!

1630Boston

@winesteven
If you wanted to go the Ebay route without the hassles, perhaps someone like @airplanenut could help, just a thought
https://forums.collectors.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=http://jkcoinphotography.com

jmski52

I sympathize with your situation, however it is the price of admission when it comes to collecting or speculation in new "collectible bullion" Mint issues. I too have accumulated almost-complete sets of both the graded MS coins and unopened boxes of the vapor-blast coins.

These past two years or so, both Apmex, MCM and other bullion distributors had curtailed their submissions for both sets - causing very small FS populations, making some of them almost impossible to find even in non-FS grades - especially at anything close to bullion pricing.

For that reason, I dragged my feet in trying to complete both sets. And for this reason - lack of support by the distributors & dealers who made beaucoup $$$$s in grading and certifying these coins for the past 10 years, I'm in no big hurry to ever complete the graded sets.

Good luck with your sale, I really hope that it turns out well for you. The upside is that you will have a nice chunk of change because of silver bullion pricing, and if I had a recommendation - it would be to hold the silver a little bit longer.

jclovescoins

can you post a price on here first for the entire set? It sounds like a lot of fees for GC and you may do better saving a colelctor all of those fees...

jclovescoins

I'd pay $8400 for the set and enjoy it. If you go the GC route, it'll be interesting to see how your total compares.

winesteven

Thanks for your offer, and I understand, and you might be right. However, I see that on eBay THREE Weir Farm PCGS MS69DMPL First Strikes sold for about $2,000, $2,000, and $3,000. Those have a pop of 15. My 2019 American Memorial has a pop of only three, and I'm not aware of any sales of either of the two besides mine. My rough guess is I'll net around $4k for the total of those two items. Maybe I'll net $150 each for the other 54. That's a rough estimate of about $12k net to me. Perhaps that's optimistic, perhaps not. Time will tell. As noted, you may be right.

As far as fees paid by collectors (the high bidders), my interpretation is other than shipping, they don't pay any fees. I do, since bidders should know to reduce their hammer bid by the amount of the buyers premium, so they end up paying what they believe is a total fair price. Since I get just hammer (minus my seller and listing fees), I'M the one that indirectly absorbs the b.p., since the hammer bids placed are presumably reduced by those amounts.

jclovescoins

@winesteven said:
Thanks for your offer, and I understand, and you might be right. However, I see that on eBay THREE Weir Farm PCGS MS69DMPL First Strikes sold for about $2,000, $2,000, and $3,000. Those have a pop of 15. My 2019 American Memorial has a pop of only three, and I'm not aware of any sales of either of the two besides mine. My rough guess is I'll net around $4k for the total of those two items. Maybe I'll net $150 each for the other 54. That's a rough estimate of about $12k net to me. Perhaps that's optimistic, perhaps not. Time will tell. As noted, you may be right.

As far as fees paid by collectors (the high bidders), my interpretation is other than shipping, they don't pay any fees. I do, since bidders should know to reduce their hammer bid by the amount of the buyers premium, so they end up paying what they believe is a total fair price. Since I get just hammer (minus my seller and listing fees), I'M the one that indirectly absorbs the b.p., since the hammer bids placed are presumably reduced by those amounts.

yes, I was talking about you paying the fees (indirectly/directly)...if I bought them from GC for $14,000, you paid $2,000 in fees (BP, selling fees, etc.) then you still net your $12,000. Point was try making a deal with a collector for the $12,000 or whatever number you think is reasonable

you may also consider seeing if someone may be interested in the other 54 at a reasonable bullion based price...I may be...
then sell your 2 best at GC

winesteven

Actually, I believe (correct or not) that I'll net better on average than $120 or so for each of the other 54, so I'm not looking to sell those for a bullion price. As noted, I might be wrong. Time will tell.

Thanks.

Steve

jclovescoins

@winesteven said:
Actually, I believe (correct or not) that I'll net better on average than $120 or so for each of the other 54, so I'm not looking to sell those for a bullion price. As noted, I might be wrong. Time will tell.

Thanks.

Steve

I just meant bullion based which means spot + 2/oz or spot +5/oz, etc. I think someone here may be interested in the 54 lesser ones for 140/each or 150/each. I doubt you will net more than that after fees and your entire set may stay with a collector. Just my two cents.

Seems like you already have your mind made up to sell on GC. I think it's the wrong call for the other 54, but probably second-best to eBay for your best 2 that seem pretty rare.

MsMorrisine

The 2012 should go for well above bullion

MsMorrisine

There’s a list on the premium tracking thread with someone buying at $10/oz over

You left $25 per, at least on the estimation table

joebb21

Some coins should not be sold at auction. If items are only going to sell for $140-$175 or whatever- and that is very generic and perhaps numbers you can easily just get by a quick sale, then I would say dont put them in auction.

Better just put the best couple of pieces and let them ride (or starting reserve)

Its like putting generic ms65 morgans in an auction- why? you can just sell for x and not have to give up fees

winesteven

Understood. I’ll have a conversation with Ian at GC to get his insight based on prior sales.

Thanks.

Steve

winesteven

@MsMorrisine said:
There’s a list on the premium tracking thread with someone buying at $10/oz over

You left $25 per, at least on the estimation table

That’s good to know! I hope it goes well. Time will tell.

Thanks, as always.

Steve

winesteven

@jclovescoins said:
I just meant bullion based which means spot + 2/oz or spot +5/oz, etc. I think someone here may be interested in the 54 lesser ones for 140/each or 150/each. I doubt you will net more than that after fees and your entire set may stay with a collector. Just my two cents.

Seems like you already have your mind made up to sell on GC. I think it's the wrong call for the other 54, but probably second-best to eBay for your best 2 that seem pretty rare.

While I agree it may sound like my mind is made up, it is not, as I’m being open minded. But so far nothing mentioned yet has convinced me otherwise. I looked at actual past sales of these items on GC, and the sale prices are higher. In the month just completed, there were 56 assorted ones of these sold on GC graded by PCGS as MS69DMPL. Leaving out the higher priced Hawaii Volcanos, eyeballing the rest, it looks like the average sale price is around $220 - $225 or so, including bp. As such, why should I consider selling privately at the much lower pricing being suggested????

Goldminers

@winesteven said:

As such, why should I consider selling privately at the much lower pricing being suggested????

You should not sell the set privately at a price lower than the price you have already estimated to be a good net for you that you would be willing to accept and be satisfied with.

I just looked at GC and some auction bids on even 5 coin year sets results do look a bit risky, as people do factor in the fees. The current silver price is not helping much either. Most interested collectors already have a lot of these and are only interested in the few they still need to complete their sets. Like you mentioned above, a lot listed at once could limit bids.

In addition to GC, you could also consider BST (not this PM forum) and put the whole set out there at a price you feel makes sense and see what offers you get. I am somewhat interested in purchasing a second set for my grandkids, for example. Some will see the advantage of buying the whole set to avoid the hassle of buying a bunch of coins separately.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

winesteven

Thanks. There's a current listing on GC of the 2010 five coin set, but that ends on Sunday night. I suspect selling coins singly rather than forcing someone to buy all five might result in higher overall pricing. As I noted above, it seems just this past month, with Silver trading at only around $23 an oz., the 50 some odd DMPL's listed and sold were averaging around $220 - $225 or so with the bp, ignoring the higher priced Hawaiian coins (two sales, over $400 each with the bp!!!!!). Yes, I understand for those looking to buy a whole set it's so much easier than obtaining them individually, but normally when one sells the full set, they discount it a bit, rather than ADD a premium. Since I can list all with GC, to ME, that's the same as selling to just one person. GC handles the complexity of collecting payment and shipping to many dozens of buyers.

The bottom line is which method will result in a greater NET to me? Without a crystal ball, there's no way for you OR me to know. However, from the sale prices I've seen in August, so far I'm leaning heavily towards listing all of them with GC.

I'm truly appreciative of your thoughts and suggestions.

Steve

Goldminers

@winesteven said:
Thanks. There's a current listing on GC of the 2010 five coin set, but that ends on Sunday night. I suspect selling coins singly rather than forcing someone to buy all five might result in higher overall pricing. As I noted above, it seems just this past month, with Silver trading at only around $23 an oz., the 50 some odd DMPL's listed and sold were averaging around $220 - $225 or so with the bp, ignoring the higher priced Hawaiian coins (two sales, over $400 each with the bp!!!!!). Yes, I understand for those looking to buy a whole set it's so much easier than obtaining them individually, but normally when one sells the full set, they discount it a bit, rather than ADD a premium. Since I can list all with GC, to ME, that's the same as selling to just one person. GC handles the complexity of collecting payment and shipping to many dozens of buyers.

The bottom line is which method will result in a greater NET to me? Without a crystal ball, there's no way for you OR me to know. However, from the sale prices I've seen in August, so far I'm leaning heavily towards listing all of them with GC.

I'm truly appreciative of your thoughts and suggestions.

Steve

PM sent

MilesWaits

Other than the Gold Spouses, I am unsure of how you could pick a more difficult set or collection to accurately appraise. Because the threat of spot, for many, is always there. And with fees that is spooky. And if you can’t set a minimum amount, ouch. I believe it was a smart idea to bring the question here and seek out a variety of opinions. I don’t have one on how to sell.
But I appreciate the experience.

winesteven

@MilesWaits said:
Other than the Gold Spouses, I am unsure of how you could pick a more difficult set or collection to accurately appraise. Because the threat of spot, for many, is always there. And with fees that is spooky. And if you can’t set a minimum amount, ouch. I believe it was a smart idea to bring the question here and seek out a variety of opinions. I don’t have one on how to sell.
But I appreciate the experience.

Miles - Thanks. I'll keep everyone posted.

Steve

jclovescoins

Best wishes to you. After reading a little more about GC's current fees, I feel even more strongly that there has to be a collector or dealer that would get you to a greater net for the lesser 54 coins. You are going to pay a $3 listing fee, 5% seller's fee, and the 10% buyer's premium (indirectly, but you know how it works), just for the privilege of the GC platform.

I will be really interested to see how they do! You always have some amazing coins.

winesteven

@jclovescoins said:
Best wishes to you. After reading a little more about GC's current fees, I feel even more strongly that there has to be a collector or dealer that would get you to a greater net for the lesser 54 coins. You are going to pay a $3 listing fee, 5% seller's fee, and the 10% buyer's premium (indirectly, but you know how it works), just for the privilege of the GC platform.

I will be really interested to see how they do! You always have some amazing coins.

I agree with your math. Thanks for your kind words.

Steve

3stars

I won't use GC until the buyers fee is gone - I have ebay with no buyers fee for buying. Probably works out the same for the seller in the end though (higher ebay fees for seller, lower bids factoring in buyers fees on GC).

winesteven

@3stars said:
I won't use GC until the buyers fee is gone - I have eBay with no buyers fee for buying. Probably works out the same for the seller in the end though (higher eBay fees for seller, lower bids factoring in buyers fees on GC).

Just out of curiosity, why would you avoid the selections on GC due to the Buyers Fee, since it appears clear you're well aware you can reduce your hammer bid (like others do), to pay in total what you want? For example, if there's an item you'd pay $100 for on eBay (with no buyers fee), and that same item is on GC, you can bid up to $91 (technically $90.91), and if you're the high bidder, you would then pay that same $100 when you add in your buyers fee!

I'm picky with my coins, so I find I have to cast a wide net to find what meets my needs for my collection. As such, in real life, I end up buying my coins from a multitude of sources - eBay, GC, DLRC, Heritage, coin dealers, etc. If I made a blanket decision to automatically cut off one or more of those sources, I'd be penalizing myself unnecessarily by reducing the ability to find quality coins for my collection.

Steve

3stars

It’s the principle of it

pmh1nic

It's difficult to determine the greater net for you because only you can assign the value of your time (listing, updating, packaging, processing payment, dealing with issues, etc.). That said you've seemed to express no desire to deal with those issues so finding someone to handle them probably results in the greatest net for you even if the actual dollars realized is less. Of course you won't have the definitive answer until the last check clears.

winesteven

Due to the great advice given above, I just finalized a deal for the vast majority of my ATB 5 oz coins from my #1 PCGS Set with a collector who contacted me with a VERY fair offer. Only EXCLUDED are the two rare ones (the 2019 American Memorial MS69DMPL First Strike (this is one of ONLY 3 with the DMPL suffix) and the 2020 Weir Farms MS69DMPL First Strike (this is one of only 15 with the DPML suffix). Also EXCLUDED is the expensive 2012 Hawaii Volcanos MS69DMPL First Strike (it typically sells for about $400 or so).

This morning I'll be overnighting those three high priced ones to GC. I'll let you know once they "go live".

Steve

1630Boston

Congrats @winesteven