Coins Having Negligible Numismatic Value When Raw
I have been collecting coins since ca. 1965. Many of the coins I have purchased (and continue to purchase) have been raw, especially large cents. Call me old-fashioned. The advent of third-party grading has led to a pervasive feeling that they add value to coins across the board, in addition to providing general authentication and grading opinions. With some modern U. S. Mint products, slabs seem to be the overwhelming basis for collector value. The collectors I have talked to, who collect ASEs, GSEs (and not just hoard them) or modern commemoratives, tend to get them slabbed instead of just leaving them in their original Mint packaging. And they tend to strongly disfavor any grade less than 69, which strikes me as incredible. Dozens of B&M dealers have told me that they view these kinds of coins as bullion, especially when raw.
When I was in a coin shop a month ago, to buy gold, I was handed half a dozen First Spouse coins (all raw). I got them for bullion value. When I talked to the dealer, he said that he would be able to get more than that if he had slabbed coins with 70 grades, possibly 69. 68 or less, or raw, was just bullion to him. If one defines numismatic value as value in excess of a coin's metal content, are there any mint-state classic coins (say pre-1965) that have negligible numismatic value when raw? I can't think of any.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Comments
I would say quite a few would.
A BU Franklin, Washie, or Jefferson nickel from the 50’s or 60’s likely isn’t worth much raw. But give it a mega grade and FBL or FS designation in a slab and the price goes way up. Without the slab grade, it’s just a “nice” coin.
A collector with a trained eye can spot the GEMS among the riff-raff.
peacockcoins
Yes, but is he going to pay GEM money for it raw?
If he trusts and had confidence in his own abilities, yes.
peacockcoins
To add to this:
I was selling a somewhat larger collection for a friend. Heritage sent a representative over to my home to evaluate the collection and determine which coins would be best for auction (and, which Heritage auction) or coins Heritage would out and out purchase for inventory.
Within a Dansco 7070 typeset was a beautiful untoned GEM Standing Liberty quarter. The Heritage numismatist looked closely at it and stated he believed it was a GEM MS66 better date and was worth an amount larger than I had anticipated.
The story is, if you have confidence in your ability to grade and determine value in a coin having the coin slabbed is secondary to your own skills.
peacockcoins
While we’re sharing stories, a very frugal collector I know assembled a very nice set of raw Franklins on the cheap. A dealer later was helping him sell his holdings and one of the coins slabbed 68 FB. It sold for thousands as it was one of the top pop coins at the time. He said he had paid $10 for it. So to him and the original dealer, it was worth $10. But once slabbed it became far more valuable to many more people.
I sold original BU rolls of cents to a forum member for a few dollars a roll. He made some top pop coins from them. Until he sorted and submitted them, to most people they were worth less than a nickel. As a top pop in a slab, the value goes way up. That’s the point I’m making.
A lot of coins have "negligible" value, even in a holder. I'd include First Spouse or any coin like it as bullion, whether it is in a holder or not. Same for the most common US pre-1933 and many world gold coins.
There are other coins that I think should be valued at modest premiums to bullion but aren't, like common Morgan and Peace dollars in grades up to MS-65. Same goes for most ASE, even in a 70.
@Sonorandesertrat said: If one defines numismatic value as value in excess of a coin's metal content, are there any mint-state classic coins (say pre-1965) that have negligible numismatic value when raw? I can't think of any.
How about FDR dimes, late 50's to 60's quarters and the most common Franklin halves below 64?
If not yet, that's where I believe it's headed. There is a large to huge supply of this material, a lot more than I believe for the future collector base who will want it at anything more.
I expect most post-1933 circulating US coinage to eventually sell for modest premiums to spot or less than the grading fee, even in grades up to MS-66.
In general, slabbed coins sell for more than equivalent raw coins. Add a sticker, and that usually adds a bit more. No doubt there are raw coin treasures out there, but they will be cherry picked, slabbed and sell for full market value. Cheers, RickO
I'm not sure that's the right question. Mint state classic coins will always have some numismatic value, but try getting MS65 money for a raw Morgan dollar (as an example). It has to be stunning and look like a 66 before anyone will pay full 65 money for it raw. Now the raw Morgan dollar has numismatic value, but it has far MORE value in the holder.
Greysheet bid on a roll of 1958 UNC Franklin halves is $228. [I looked yesterday because I have 10 original rolls.] Melt on them is $185. That's pretty negligible numismatic value. On the other hand, Greysheet bid on an MS-64 Franklin is $19 against $9.25 melt.
Now, if you want to throw in another variable: cost of slabbing. It certainly isn't worth the cost of the slab to turn an $11 raw MS-64 Franklin into a $19 slabbed MS-64 Franklin, or even a $24 MS-65 Franklin.
With the number of counterfeits you hear about slabbing is one way to increase the number of potential buyers and increasing that number typically increases the perceived value (supply and demand).
As far as grading is concerned, it's not uncommon to get a 3 point spread when someone post a "guess the grade" picture. While we all understand we're grading a picture it's still somewhat disconcerting when experienced members are a point apart, especially when discussing a coin where one point means a 2x, 3x or more difference in price. Slabbing increases the confidence level in a grade which increases the marketability of a coin.