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Answered nothing to see here :)

SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
edited June 5, 2022 6:03AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Answered LMAO I only wish,,, oh wait it's too red hmmm 1793, the devices and fonts, the weight= which I'm sure since nobody says that Early American Copper could be underweight by 10% or more or 5% overweight & that coins are cancelled cause of the weight alone, it was bought as a supposed reproduction, of what hmmm 🤔 that's the famous question, the best is this coin beats an ex EAC President for 4 hours,,, yeah ok I believe you.
Yeah oh I've been told lol
Thanks again all

«1

Comments

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is a "1978 D LMC"?

    What is it you want to know?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    What is a "1978 D LMC"?

    What is it you want to know?

    I'm guessing LMC is Lincoln Memorial Cent.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s a pretty nice looking fake.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks to be a copy of the S-8.
    Pretty close, the only real difference to me is the beading is off.
    The plain edge is also a concern, though there are reports of 'plain edge' specimens,
    going back to Edward Froussard.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree... looks to be a copy... albeit a pretty nice one.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and it still has the nearly universal weakness in the central parts, hair, ear, eyes, nose and where liberty would normally be. i did not read much of the op, so i'll bow out.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:51AM

    :)

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum! :)

    You bought it off ebay as a replica.
    The seller has more listed.
    If you think they are real why haven't you bought all this seller has in stock at $31 each?
    You have posted this on several forums and all the replies have been fake/counterfeit.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/203477274909?hash=item2f6030d11d:g:sWkAAOSwUO1g~vG9

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:51AM

    :)

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The prevailing wisdom on ebay is that if it's too good to be true,
    it usually is... BTW... Welcome to the forum!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    why not make an exact copy? why are there differences?

    low quality fakes will have easy to spot differences. hang around here long enough and someone will post an ebay auction where a low quality fake is being sold as a real one. have a look then.

    I do not see die breaks on the reverse. I do see some type of either die gouges or die polish marks.

    here's a real one from PCGS' CoinFacts for the Wreath Cent with Vines and Bars edge
    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1793-wreath-1c-vine-bars-edge-bn/1347

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin posted from CoinFacts is a Sheldon 5.
    The coin posted by the op is a Sheldon 8. If you can find a picture of an S-8, you’ll see it is an extremely close match for a die state I coin.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was being lazy not finding the right match

    It was just to show the overall look and feel is not rustic colonial but modern copy

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree.
    But I fear that someone somewhere is going to “wear” these down to VG and get the color close enough to fool average collectors and Sunday bourse dealers….ugh!

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:51AM

    :) ty

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Realize a good deal of what Breen wrote needs to be taken with a grain of salt....

    Your coin is similar to an S-8, but not a match. Like I stated above, the beading isn't
    a match, also neither is the line in the fraction on the reverse. They would not have struck
    ONE coin with the die then discarded it, then made another with almost identical attributes for normal cent production.

    If you want more detailed explanations about die ejection indicators etc, on early copper, you should try to reach out to Craig Sholley (if you can find him), or Mark Borckardt at Heritage. Mark Feld on the forum @MFeld can likely put you in touch with Mark B.
    Good luck.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your coin is an anonymous reproduction. While some manufacturers of reproductions like D. Carr and the Gallery Mint do have a following, unless you can identify the maker, I'm afraid there will be very little, if any interest in different compositions. However, if you find them interesting, go ahead and collect them.

    BTW. I don't believe it's legal to sell this In the US because it's not stamped with COPY unless you can show it was made before 1970.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A $200. PCGS walk-thru will give you the answer you are seeking lickety-split.

    peacockcoins

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭

    I agree with everyone 😊.
    Just look at the faces on said identical reproductions, then if you all want I'll do side by side reverse.
    I'm just lost, the one he says it's identical I would never buy.
    Thanks again all

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your coin is a reproduction. The seller is selling them as a reproduction. I would guess the seller knows where they purchased them. I would also guess if you would have bought it from a seller in China rather than a middle man seller in Israel you could have paid much less and you could get hundreds of them if you want. It doesn't matter if they are made of bronze, copper, silver or tin it is a copy not some special off metal pattern. No matter how bad you want it to be something else it will always be a counterfeit. No matter how close it looks to the real thing it will always be a counterfeit.

    I hope the amount of time you have spent posting this on different forums has been worth the education to you.
    You have spent far more time on a cheap counterfeit trinket than needs to be spent.
    Do yourself a favor and put it away with your other coins or just throw it in the trash but move on to something else.

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:52AM

    :)

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You wouldn’t perhaps be over studying die markers would you? Or using a cheap Amazon scope?

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:52AM

    :)

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, it’s not real

    And

    No, we don’t want to buy it

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2021 6:03PM

    No, it's not for sale.

    All I'm doing is showing and asking questions, sorry if I show a hint of skepticism in your answers.

    I'm baffled, so I figured the pros would know, lips, nose, eyes, chin, cheekbone all have a form of protection, in my opinion.

    Thanks all

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad I spent an hour trying to help and provide research, insight and avenues for you, only to get insulted.
    Enjoy your coin.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2021 6:24PM

    I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm simply saying it's the best I've ever seen.
    You all are the pros, hence me posting here and everywhere.
    Again I'm not saying this is real or anything I'm saying is, it's just a super mysterious replica that's all.
    No insults intended.
    Sorry, and thanks all
    Have a great night

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "So here is my new find, this coin has anti-counterfeit protection engraved into the die that struck this coin."

    Not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement?
    Are you asking if there was anti-counterfeiting protection on a genuine 1793 cent?
    Or are you saying you believe your counterfeit has anti-counterfeiting protection?

    "I'm not saying this is real, or that this kind of anti-counterfeit protection is a real thing."

    So you are saying the coin isn't real and the anti-counterfeiting protection isn't a real thing?

    "I'm baffled, so I figured the pros would know, lips, nose, eyes, chin, cheekbone all have a form of protection, in my opinion."

    You are "baffled" because you are overthinking everything and confusing yourself.
    You are welcome to your opinion.

    A genuine 1793 cent did not have anti-counterfeiting protection on the lips, eyes, chin etc.

    A counterfeit would not have anti-counterfeiting protection because that would just be silly.

    "it's just a super mysterious replica that's all."

    No, it's just super mysterious how you buy a counterfeit and somehow think it's real even after many experts have told you it is not.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a pattern proof and it just has to be a real pattern proof because it has the best finish I have ever seen.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any coin or medal stuck in a collar will have ejection marks, even copies made on modern presses. If I am not mistaken the US mint did not use collars until the early-mid 1800's which alone should be enough to show that this coin is not the age it claims to be.
    Here is a 2005 article by David Lange that goes into some detail. Yes, this is a tertiary source but the best I can do on the internet.
    https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/804/
    Specifically this section. Bold and italic added by me.
    "Until the 1820s the United States Mint appears to have used collars solely for centering planchets as they were placed upon the lower die. These were known as open collars, since they did not actually compress the coin during the striking process. Whatever edge device appeared on a coin was imparted in a separate operation, prior to striking. Most literature, including my own book on the history of the United States Mint, asserts that it was not until 1828 that USA coins were struck within close collars that actually formed the coin's edge (these are the Small Date dimes dated 1828). Recent research, however, has revealed that certain dimes and quarters display repeating collar flaws that establish usage of the close collar earlier in the 1820s."

    Collector, occasional seller

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:52AM

    :) pics are everywhere

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "My bad you all are correct, had me fooled that's for sure"

    And you are back and still fooled. :D

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    @TurtleCat said:
    Reading that is like trying to interpret a long paragraph of Yoda. Not sure what you’re trying to say.

    I don't really think he has any point, he just enjoys spoofing everyone on multiple coin forums for whatever reason.

    Small minds are easily amused. ;)

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭

    My bad with that a choke of words, I'm sorry lol.
    That's an SP66 mmmkay, just saying

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:53AM

    :)

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Counterfeit

    And

    No, we aren’t interested in buying it

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "First, China doesn't make reproductions from copper, or so the internet says, that would be too expensive in just metal costs alone."

    Clearly you didn't research this as much as you have everything else.
    You can get them here for $1.70 and they are made of copper.
    The images shown have "copy" on them but there is a very good chance the coins you get will not be stamped.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20210809205754&SearchText=1793+cent

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I recall your story correctly (Either from here or one of the other sites)...

    • You bought this from a seller as a reproduction
    • The seller has other reproductions of this type for sale
    • Since the style, weight, and/or composition is different than the other reproductions, you feel it it must be a genuine example.

    Just a quick question. How did a seller of multiple reproductions somehow get an real coin, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, mixed in with his fakes?

    To paraphrase the 14th century monk and philosopher William of Ockham, The simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation.

    Numerous experienced, knowledgeable, and credible collectors, early copper specialists, and numismatic researchers have said it's a fake on multiple sites. Time to stop the nonsense. If you believe its real, send it in for authentication.

    BTW, I think this summarizes your explanation.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2022 4:53AM

    :)

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the Jewish on here will be quite proud to know the colonists brought in die sinkers from Israel

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The guy is almost a good story teller… needs more practice.

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SlickCoins said:
    Ok :), just for the record yes I did say a bunch.

    One thing, I never said it is real, I did say I "think" it is the 1793 SP Wreath cent,,, yes real in my opinion.

    I also pointed out how real the protection is on said coin, I also mentioned Master engraver marks, green corrosion on it, which I have researched and found there is no way to fake green corrosion(at least that I know of).

    You all might know how, but Google doesn't have a answer.

    Correct I haven't done much research on fakes made of copper, my researching now is on Israel Master Engravers and Artists of 1793, along with finding out American colonizers were in Rishon Le Zion in 1793.

    Wow I show a coin along with be completely honest and the responses I get are "we don't wanna buy it" hmmm that's strange, I didn't know it was up for sale.

    Anyways thanks again all :)

    Awesome answers, thou I think if I had any coin and I mean any, I might pass on showing it or even sending it in to people with these kinds of answers.

    PS: My 1834 half dime was fake until Mr Lange said it was real.

    Lotta words, not a lot of substance.

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still haven’t figured what the point of this thread was. Half the OP posts seemed to be little more than predictive text stories mixed in with some shaming.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @clarkbar04 said:
    I still haven’t figured what the point of this thread was. Half the OP posts seemed to be little more than predictive text stories mixed in with some shaming.

    He’s trying to have fun at the board’s expense. Could be an alt, who knows. At this point he’s trying to keep the thread alive with more prose. Must have a lot of free time on his hands.

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