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4/3 Over/properly/underpriced: 1986 Jordan PSA 10 @ $46,000. Verdict; discussion ongoing!

1957Braves1957Braves Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
edited April 25, 2020 12:20PM in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

Another from the request line. Going big on Friday. This should have lots of attention. Lets see what you say gang!

Most recent sales were $45,100 and $48,600 on 3/26 and 3/22.

Standard disclaimer:

Classifications

Overpriced-given the player, set, condition, etc. this card is currently selling for higher than you would expect. You would sell at the current price.

Properly priced- same thing, with your feeling that you would buy or sell a this price and feel comfortable.

Under priced- again same and you would buy at the current price.

To keep the discussion light and not getting bogged down by definitions, just think of the stated PSA standards of each grade, not a specific card for sale or recently sold. I’m also not looking at pop reports.

I don’t have VCP access, so I’ll just list the card and the average of the last two eBay sales.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want a particular card thrown out for discussion

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Comments

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Way overpriced. Way too many of them. I know everyone thinks he is the best player of all-time, but I would take Bill Russell over him any time. 11 Championships in 13 years (going up against Wilt alot of the times). Even player coached a championship team. Never done in any sport that I know of, by anyone but him. Jordan won his championships after Magic and Larry were 35 years old. Jordan was great, but doubtful the best.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been enjoying these each day, and have a thought - instead of using the "New Discussion" button, maybe you might want to use the pulldown option next to it for a "New Poll" instead - easy to vote.... thanks for doing them. They have been interesting.

    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • 1957Braves1957Braves Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    Thanks Boxsox. I'll do that starting tomorrow.

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proper -> slightly under

    It's this generation's 52 Mantle, the iconic card to have. Yes, the pop is high, but demand is insanely high too. The only risk of this card dropping is if PSA starts grading Star again.

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    Overpriced....plus the shilling and bogus stuff with auctions of this card are just crazy.

  • sayheywyosayheywyo Posts: 443 ✭✭✭✭

    Overpriced. Let the big boys with their big bucks figure this one out. The "average Joe" collector will be looking for nicely centered 7's and 8's which probably will still have some upside.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The most recent PSA 10 sales ended at 45.1k & 48.6k,no surprise that they were a probstein & pwcc auction. I think if I had that type of money to spend on a single card I'd rather go with the best centered PSA 9 I could find then add some other high end MJ's off my whale list.

    I think I have a good suggestion for another one of these over/under/just right threads,a recent Jordan 1985 Star #101 PSA 8 sold for 10.6k after it was listed as a 50k BIN. PSA has graded just a total of thirteen of the #101 with one 9w/qualifier as the only graded higher.

  • 1957Braves1957Braves Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2020 1:17PM

    i missed those two in my price quote. I'll update. And that makes it a way overpriced for me.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am going with under priced. This card may go down at some point in the near term after a huge run but I think it is going up longer term. This is the ultimate stud card from the 80's and everyone would love to have a Jordan rookie.

    Michael Jordan is probably the most collected athlete and this card is iconic. I remember when a real 86 Fleer box was under 20k and now a non Frankenstein box is like 80k. It just some how keeps going up.

    Don't be surprised when this card gaps up and moves to over 100k in the coming years.

  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭

    Overpriced. And price manipulated. Again.

    image


  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Said it as soon as that auction ended that one was rigged, fake as a $3 bill, and it will be up for sale again in a couple of months again on PWCC. That was all done to drive up prices of the 8’s and 9’s some collectors have IMO. Winner had feedback of 1 I believe - probably an employee of PWCC who set up as a bidder and card sits in their vault.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FYI the feedback went to 2 so it was paid for. Did they buy their own card? I don't know but someone ate the fees if so.

  • coolstanleycoolstanley Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Properly priced. This card will continue to rise as he is a sports hero all over the globe.

    Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!

    Ignore list -Basebal21

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    Overpriced
    It may well be that collectors/investors are willing to pay the price.
    If I had $50K it wouldn't be this card.
    Yes I take Bill Russell any day over Jordan

    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • dan89dan89 Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love Russell and the love for the 57 card, however the image basically is garbage. Coupled with the centering disaster, snow like it is Buffalo in January and the basic picture has no eye appeal at all.

    The Jordan image and card has so much eye appeal and is one of the most recognizable images in the hobby. Jordan is more of s household name more than Russel as well.

    Have to remember 86 Fleer is only 132 cards. The set collecting love is huge. Don’t get me wrong Russell is a God locally, however the Jordan card has more long term +++. I will keep my nine and be happy with it.

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably the most price manipulated card in the hobby. Way overpriced.

    We also know of one dealer that got three consecutive 10s in one sub so I’d also expect the pop to grow as chipped edges get removed from 8s and 9s

  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭

    Underpriced before the documentary comes out. I’d love to see his 3 star cards get reviewed, the 85 slam dunk, court kings and 101 cards.

    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • remedylaneremedylane Posts: 330 ✭✭✭

    Forgive me for not knowing. But what is the reason the star cards don't get graded?

  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:
    FYI the feedback went to 2 so it was paid for. Did they buy their own card? I don't know but someone ate the fees if so.

    Saw where the feedback changed as well. Someone asked me why I think this one was shilled/fake. Bidder has a feedback of (1) prior to the auction, Jordan 10’s sell for low $30k range for most of the year, and then a 10 spikes to the high $40’s - a 10 that to the naked eye is not perfectly centered hence would not command a premium.

    The other thing is that with a 10 there is no upside to bidding up a high end 10 since PSA does not give out PSA 11 grades. If someone paid over VCP price for a high end 9 there is a chance for a bump and substantial $$ gain. With a PSA 10 there is no bump to a higher grade. Only benefit is owning a PSA 10 which there are plenty out there. Someone is manipulating the price of the 10 so the 8’s and 9’s get pulled up. This is just like the summer of 2016 when the Koufax, Clemente, Rose, Ryan.... and other rookies were shilled up. Funny thing is the same dealer is involved - what else need to be said.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2020 9:59AM

    @remedylane said:
    Forgive me for not knowing. But what is the reason the star cards don't get graded?

    IIRC, PSA was getting quite a few reprints submitted in with the real cards and decided to just stop grading Star cards entirely. There are some PSA graded Star cards out there but not many when compared to the BGS graded Star cards.

    edit: a collector put together this card site dedicated to Star basketball cards and it has tons of info on their history.
    http://www.basketballgold.com/

  • remedylaneremedylane Posts: 330 ✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:

    @remedylane said:
    Forgive me for not knowing. But what is the reason the star cards don't get graded?

    IIRC, PSA was getting quite a few reprints submitted in with the real cards and decided to just stop grading Star cards entirely. There are some PSA graded Star cards out there but not many when compared to the BGS graded Star cards.

    edit: a collector put together this card site dedicated to Star basketball cards and it has tons of info on their history.
    http://www.basketballgold.com/

    Thanks! I kinda figured that's what it was. I remember back In the 90s staring at a tuff stuff and looking at their prices in awe. I guess maybe the reprints were so good it was getting hard to distinguish from the legit ones? Also, I know there some folks that feel a large portion of the highly graded 86 fleer are altered. I think both lend to the proof, and value of the enormous popularity of MJ.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overpriced in my mind but I'm not a basketball collector. Having said that, I can see why it would be overpriced as he is probably the most recognizable sports star of the 80s/90s. Also, basketball has a larger worldwide following so there are probably a lot of international buyers driving up the price. There's a lot of money in China and basketball is big there.

    Regarding the Star card, the value is likely suppressed due to the number of "authentic" reprints out there and the fact PSA won't grade them anymore because they can't be certain of which once are original and which were printed years later using the same printing plates.

  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2020 11:11AM

    @olb31 said:
    Way overpriced. Way too many of them. I know everyone thinks he is the best player of all-time, but I would take Bill Russell over him any time. 11 Championships in 13 years (going up against Wilt alot of the times). Even player coached a championship team. Never done in any sport that I know of, by anyone but him. Jordan won his championships after Magic and Larry were 35 years old. Jordan was great, but doubtful the best.

    I have to respectfully disagree with anyone that says Bill Russell was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan. Yes he won 11 championships but if that is the measurement then that means Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan because he won seven championships. And by that logic Sam Jones is the second best player of all time because he won 10 championships. To me that logic is very flawed.

    All you have to do is simply look at each player play basketball for just a little bit and you will see that Bill Russell was not even a very good player offensively. Yes he was a very good defensive player at 6 foot 10 inches against players much smaller than him. Bill Russell could not shoot. He was very athletic for his size, but if you can't shoot you can't be one of the greatest. He can handle the ball decently for a big man but even at that he went to his left almost every time which is very predictable.

    I know this is sacrilege to some people but I think Bill Russell is one of the most overrated players of all-time simply because he won 11 championships on a very good team. I firmly believe that the argument that he is the best player because he won the most championships is simply a lazy argument. Bill Russell was a great player in his time but he would not be in my top 25.

    Michael Jordan is simply the greatest player I've ever seen play. That is not my quote... That is Bobby Knight saying this after he coached him on the 1984 Olympic team before he even entered the NBA. I think a Hall of Fame coach should know. And for the record I think Bobby Knight was a jerk but he certainly knew basketball.

    As for the 1986 Fleer PSA 10 I am not sure. Part of me says it might be overpriced because of the quantity that is out there but the demand is insane right now. I certainly don't ever see it going below $30,000 again.

    Bill Russell shooting
    https://youtu.be/1xKXN7Nd5SM

    The GOAT
    https://youtu.be/W_wcEiz6eTk

    Shane

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey Frank here you go.

    Michael Jordan won his first NBA Championship in his 8th season in the league. Bird's first season his team went from last to first overall record. Magic won the championship. Russell won the championship.

    Russell played against Wilt Chamberlain, in Wilt's prime. Wilt was every bit as good an offensive player as Jordan. I think Wilt is probably the 2nd best player of all-time.

    Jordan started winning after the celtics, lakers and pistons all got old and Magic got HIV. Jordan, in my mind is the #3 of All-time. I watched him play his whole career. He was great, especially when he had great teams. He was a great scorer, when his team's weren't so good. But when his team's weren't great he could not lift them to the next level. He just scored.

    Jordan's was great, just not the greatest. Since you are quoting Bobby Knight, what did he have to say about Larry Bird? Bird originally went to Indiana, but Knight doesn't talk about why Larry left after one semester. Larry wasn't even playing. Knight doesn't sound smart to me. Larry would have started on my team.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • empigtvempigtv Posts: 58 ✭✭
    edited April 8, 2020 3:30AM

    Overpriced. The card is not rare and the difference between a 9 and 10 is often pretty arbitrary. I bet most people would fail the Pepsi challenge trying to identify a 9 v. 10 in this card. I can see 8s at 3k-4k because a lot of people want to own this card and a lot of people have 4k to spend. It is iconic. Still, the 10 premium for most modern cards is based on artificial scarcity and little more.

  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭

    @remedylane said:
    Forgive me for not knowing. But what is the reason the star cards don't get graded?

    They do get graded by Beckett. If you’re referring the why not for PSA I think it’s basically because of historic momentum now. They haven’t done it for a while and probably don’t see a reason to start.

    It’s a shame PSA doesn’t grade the star cards though being the officially licensed basketball cards for a numbers of important years. I mean what good is a grading service that can’t figure out how to grade cards? I don’t buy the argument they can’t figure out how to authenticate them since BGS has found a way to do it successfully for decades and we know the 86 Jordan Fleer card has been shown to be faked well more than the Star Jordan’s.

    I do think someday PSA will get their act together and provide the service to collectors again though.

    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again, I’m not a basketball expert but isn’t it the case where the owner of Star used his original printing plates to produce a bunch more sets after Jordan became a superstar? So those reprints are indistinguishable from the originals.

  • BJY83BJY83 Posts: 245 ✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    Probably the most price manipulated card in the hobby. Way overpriced.

    We also know of one dealer that got three consecutive 10s in one sub so I’d also expect the pop to grow as chipped edges get removed from 8s and 9s

    Which dealer was that?

    Brian

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    Bill Russell won 5 MVP awards and was never out of he top 5 voting (minus his first year)

    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2020 5:48AM

    NBA achievements

    Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Class of 2009

    6× NBA champion: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998

    5× NBA Most Valuable Player: 1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98

    6× NBA Finals Most Valuable Player: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998

    10× Scoring leader: 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 1989–90, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98

    NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 1987-88

    NBA Rookie of the Year: 1984-85

    14× NBA All-Star: 1985, 1986 (selected but injured), 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003

    3× NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player: 1988, 1996, 1998

    2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion: 1987, 1988. Runner-up in 1985

    3× Steals leader: 1987–88, 1989–90, 1992–93

    2× Minutes leader: 1987–88, 1988–89

    2× IBM Award winner: 1985, 1989

    11× All-NBA selection:
    First Team: 1987–93, 1996–98
    Second Team: 1985

    9× All-Defensive selection:
    First Team: 1988–93, 1996–98

    NBA All-Rookie selection:
    First Team: 1985

    7× The Sporting News Most Valuable Player: 1987–88, 1988–89, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98

    The Sporting News Rookie of the Year: 1985

    Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year: 1991

    Ranked #1 by SLAM Magazine's Top 50 Players of All-time

    Ranked #1 by ESPN SportsCentury's Top North American Athletes of the 20th Century

    Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"

    Selected in 1996 as member of two of the "Top 10 Teams in NBA History" 1991–92 Chicago Bulls (67–15; .817) & 1995–96 Chicago Bulls (72–10; .878)

    25 NBA Player of the Week

    16 NBA Player of the Month

    = = =

    May I just say that not only is it most people's opinion that he is the greatest basketball player ever but he was voted as the 20th century's greatest athlete ever in any sport.

    Fun debate, fellas.

    = = =

    Question for you guys that is more on topic for this thread. I am genuinely thinking about buying another Jordan rookie for the short-term and maybe reselling during the middle of the documentary. I already have a PSA 8 and probably could only afford a PSA 8. What grade should I buy do you think for a quick turnaround?

    Shane

  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭

    @gemint said:
    Again, I’m not a basketball expert but isn’t it the case where the owner of Star used his original printing plates to produce a bunch more sets after Jordan became a superstar? So those reprints are indistinguishable from the originals.

    To simply answer your question no star 1984 or 85 Jordan’s were ever reprinted later.

    Here’s a good article from a while ago that goes into further detail:

    https://jordancards.com/blog/the-real-star-co-cards-story-interview-with-renowned-star-cards-expert-steve-taft/

    Follow me at LinkedIn & Instagram: @ryanscard
    Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
    1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
  • ElvisPElvisP Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2020 12:00PM

    Wilt Chamberlain is the best player all-time. Russell won championships because he basically played on an all-star team. Wilt never had the supporting cast Russell did and Wilt dominated Russell head to head. One example:
    1961-62 season WC averaged 50 points/game and 25.7 rebounds.
    The same season Russell had his career best scoring average of 18.2 ppg.

  • chaz43chaz43 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    Way overpriced. Way too many of them. I know everyone thinks he is the best player of all-time, but I would take Bill Russell over him any time. 11 Championships in 13 years (going up against Wilt alot of the times). Even player coached a championship team. Never done in any sport that I know of, by anyone but him. Jordan won his championships after Magic and Larry were 35 years old. Jordan was great, but doubtful the best.

    Nah.....Jordan all the way!

    chaz

  • TGwynnCollectorTGwynnCollector Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2020 1:37PM

    Overpriced, especially when you consider it's roughly 10 times the price of a PSA 9. But I've always been a 'buy the card not the holder' guy so I feel that was about most PSA 10's.

    I'm perfectly satisfied with this PSA 9 I picked up for a fraction of the price.

  • Oops, here's the attachment:

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your PSA 9 is selling on eBay for more than you realize. No where close to ten times the price.

  • @Dpeck100 said:
    Your PSA 9 is selling on eBay for more than you realize. No where close to ten times the price.

    Yup after I posted I looked it up, I haven’t been really keeping up. Make that 5 times the price lol

  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree wholeheartedly that a PSA 10 is not that much better than a PSA 9. Having said that and with that line of thinking I now think that the PSA 10 is overpriced, but the PSA 9 is not overpriced. Think about it this way... For the same price of a PSA 10 you can probably buy 4 PSA 9s. I think I would rather have 4 PSA 9s than one PSA 10.

    Shane

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A 1989 Ken Griffey Jr in a PSA 9 is $90 to $100. A PSA 10 just sold on April 6th for $800. It is an undeniable fact that a Gem Mint grade will always sell for more than a 9. The ratio is always hard to determine and varies from card to card but it always exists.

    Why?

    Because in the eyes of collectors a PSA 10 is better. Are there PSA 9's that have been cracked and turned into 10's? Yes. Are there cards that have been sent in for review and bumped to a 10? Yes. But under no circumstances will the card in the current 9 holder sell for more than the 10.

    A Jordan 10 is as good a card as it gets. Sure the pop is over 300 but if we were drawing this out on an economics supply and demand curve there might be 100,000 collectors who would like to own one on the lower end of the price scale. There will always be an imbalance between supply and demand of this card and to find equilibrium it has to go up a lot with so few truly available.

    You can show anyone a Gem Mint 10 rookie card of Michael Jordan and they will say that is cool. No one will say it is stupid even if they really have no interest in cards. He is the man.

    I have made the point over and over on here but bragging rights are why cards like this go for what they do and that isn't going to change. If a 10 goes down they all will go down in value as the perceived value has deteriorated. If you own a 9 you want the 10 to go even higher as it will pull all of the close substitutes higher with it.

  • @olb31 said:
    Way overpriced. Way too many of them. I know everyone thinks he is the best player of all-time, but I would take Bill Russell over him any time. 11 Championships in 13 years (going up against Wilt alot of the times). Even player coached a championship team. Never done in any sport that I know of, by anyone but him. Jordan won his championships after Magic and Larry were 35 years old. Jordan was great, but doubtful the best.

    These are good points, but as far as the hobby is concerned, Michael Jordan is the cream of the crop. Look at Mickey Mantle. I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many people that will tell you he's the greatest baseball player of all time, but his 1952 Topps card is THE iconic baseball card in the hobby, just as the 1986 Fleer Jordan is to basketball

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TGwynnCollector said:

    @olb31 said:
    Way overpriced. Way too many of them. I know everyone thinks he is the best player of all-time, but I would take Bill Russell over him any time. 11 Championships in 13 years (going up against Wilt alot of the times). Even player coached a championship team. Never done in any sport that I know of, by anyone but him. Jordan won his championships after Magic and Larry were 35 years old. Jordan was great, but doubtful the best.

    These are good points, but as far as the hobby is concerned, Michael Jordan is the cream of the crop. Look at Mickey Mantle. I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many people that will tell you he's the greatest baseball player of all time, but his 1952 Topps card is THE iconic baseball card in the hobby, just as the 1986 Fleer Jordan is to basketball

    Yes, collecting wise I agree. Heck, right now Don Mattingly cards are selling for more than Gywnn, Boggs, Sandberg, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. Hos career not quite as good as these guys. But I don't think in totality that Mattingly was better than any of these players.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The difference is that NOBODY is saying that Don Mattingly is better than those guys and very, very few people would say that Mantle is the best of all time. He definitely had the potential to be were it not for injuries, but that is another topic. However, Michael Jordan is WIDELY regarded as the best of all time. Yes, there are some people that say he isn't (as we have seen on these boards), but those people are in the minority in a big way. Most casual fans along with most experts think that MJ is the GOAT. Consider me one of them.

    I do not want to disrespect anyone here that thinks otherwise, because you are entitled to your opinion. I can appreciate that. So....let me just say this strictly about the "experts". If an expert (ie media people, players, coaches, former coaches and players, etc) says that someone other than MJ is the GOAT, that person is usually just trying to "out-think the room" and trying to get attention.

    Shane

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Frank, that's what makes it fun to debate. You have an opinion, I have an opinion, Joe has an opinion and so on. None of us are wrong.

    Mattingly and Mantle kind of had the same issues, injuries. Mattingly more so than Mantle, but both were great players and both are heavily collected. Mostly, I guess, because they played for the Yankees.

    Jordan played in era were Bird and johnson had elevated the NBA to the level it is know. Without them clearing the path for the NBA awareness, Jordan would have been the next Julius Erving. Dr J was a great player, very flamboyant!! Much like Mike. But, the NBA in the 70's was an after thought. Heck I had to stay up and watch tape delays of the 1976 finals between the Celtics and the Suns. Then 5 years later, the Celtics and Rockets series still was not on live and in prime time, at least not every game, because i had to listen to it on the radio.

    Jordan did not have these obstacles. I bet when Bill Russell played they didn't even show NBA on TV or rarely they did. Jordan came along at the right time for him. He could have easily been, Dr. J or George Gervin. I still say if he were the best it would not have taken 8 years to win a championship. It took Russell 1 year, Bird 2 years, Magic 1 year. And all won multiples. These guys made their teams the best that they could be. Jordan was the best that he could be. But i still have Jordan at 3. Still great. Just my take.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,527 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2020 1:33PM

    One of the things that makes Jordan the greatest was his Superman like ability to do things other players just couldn't do. His ability to hit fade aways was ridiculous, and he had it down to a science. It is the most difficult shot to make in basketball because you're shooting the ball off balance, and your body is going backwards. It made him unguardable. You just can't defend something like this.

  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2020 2:05PM

    @olb31 said:
    Frank, that's what makes it fun to debate. You have an opinion, I have an opinion, Joe has an opinion and so on. None of us are wrong.

    Mattingly and Mantle kind of had the same issues, injuries. Mattingly more so than Mantle, but both were great players and both are heavily collected. Mostly, I guess, because they played for the Yankees.

    Jordan played in era were Bird and johnson had elevated the NBA to the level it is know. Without them clearing the path for the NBA awareness, Jordan would have been the next Julius Erving. Dr J was a great player, very flamboyant!! Much like Mike. But, the NBA in the 70's was an after thought. Heck I had to stay up and watch tape delays of the 1976 finals between the Celtics and the Suns. Then 5 years later, the Celtics and Rockets series still was not on live and in prime time, at least not every game, because i had to listen to it on the radio.

    Jordan did not have these obstacles. I bet when Bill Russell played they didn't even show NBA on TV or rarely they did. Jordan came along at the right time for him. He could have easily been, Dr. J or George Gervin. I still say if he were the best it would not have taken 8 years to win a championship. It took Russell 1 year, Bird 2 years, Magic 1 year. And all won multiples. These guys made their teams the best that they could be. Jordan was the best that he could be. But i still have Jordan at 3. Still great. Just my take.

    Oh, I definitely agree that is fun to debate...and it is exactly that...a debate.

    And by the way.... I have a saying. It has to do with sports and it could even apply to cards. "Sports do not really matter...but it sure is fun to pretend that it DOES!"

    I would argue that the Bird / Magic comparison is not apples to apples. How many championships would MJ have won on a team with Kareem, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, and Byron Scott? How many championships would he have won if he had played with McHale, Parish, Dennis Johnson, and Danny Ainge? The fact is that Jordan had no choice but to carry Dave Corzine, John Paxon, Brad Sellers, Sedale Threatt with a little help from Charles Oakley. It wasn't until the Bulls drafted a young Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant that they started on an upward trajectory. They took a couple of years to gel....and then they turned into a dynasty (with a few changes along the way).

    I won't even start talking about if Jordan had played on those 1950s and 1960s Celtics teams. Look at those gifs above....poetry in motion!. Nobody in the NBA would have known what to do with him (much like the late 80s and 90s NBA didn't know either!). Nobody in the world can cover my main man, Michael Jordan....no, no noooooo-body! If you don't believe me, just ask Mars Blackmon!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3MZyxjV_v4

    By the way....both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson say that Michael Jordan is the greatest to ever play!

    Shane

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jordan is the GOAT.
    Tom Brady
    Jim Brown
    Wayne Gretsky
    Jerry Rice
    Apple and oranges. That's what makes the world great.
    If we all had the same opinion it would be a boring place.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=66922

    This copy is up to $38,400 with the buyers premium in REA.

  • dan89dan89 Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Decent copy, has a print mark between the Michael and Jordan. Centering top to bottom is not perfect. Edges do not bother me as it should have something of a rough cut even on a 10. I do think I like my 9 better which has a small print mark as well

  • It really is remarkable what the 1986 Fleer Jordans are getting right now. The PSA 9 has settled recently anywhere between $8,000-$9,000 with a population of about 2700 and the PSA 10 is now $45,000-$50,000 with a population of 312!! Can anyone think of another card that comes anywhere close to this price that has such high population numbers? It seems to be the one card that most collectors say they must have in their collection, in some grade.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 86 Fleer Jordan and the 89 Upper Deck Griffey Jr. are the pound for pound strongest cards in the market.

    Nothing comes close.

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