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Is this 1966 SMS Kennedy a "No FG" variety? - UPDATE

ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 20, 2019 8:27AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've received grades and this TrueView in the last couple of days, is this coin the "No FG" variety?

Question #2 - Am I correct that since this is considered a "Major Variety" that the Variety Designation fee would not be required? My understanding is that if the coin is listed in the price guide without a FS reference that the fee is not required.

The problem being though I had indicated the appropriate coin number for the designated coin 411636 on the submission form and included "No FG" in the variety field the coin is not so designated in the certificate verification page.

Is this 1966 SMS Kennedy a "No FG" variety? - UPDATE

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  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Need a better photo of the reverse.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like one but need better image. There are some "Weak FG" coins around with the initials not polished off completely.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    Certainly appears to match the CPG.... Cheers, RickO

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I once heard it needed to be included in the redbook to not need variety attribution. I just checked my 2013 66th edition and could not find 1966 SMS Kennedys in the Kennedy section, so you got half for free.

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019 7:32AM

    Yup, not it the red book they probably will not do it.

    I have been down that road with them before.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what does FG mean?
    also, what does "SMS" mean?
    I am just curious now , as Just yesterday I acquired a pile of Kennedy halfs and some other US coinage.
    Thanks for your help.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ModCrewman said:

    Question #2 - Am I correct that since this is considered a "Major Variety" that the Variety Designation fee would not be required? My understanding is that if the coin is listed in the price guide without a FS reference that the fee is not required.

    The problem being though I had indicated the appropriate coin number for the designated coin 411636 on the submission form and included "No FG" in the variety field the coin is not so designated in the certificate verification page.

    I'm not sure why you don't start with Customer Service.

  • Moxie15Moxie15 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    what does FG mean?
    also, what does "SMS" mean?
    I am just curious now , as Just yesterday I acquired a pile of Kennedy halfs and some other US coinage.
    Thanks for your help.

    FG are the designer's initials
    SMS Special Mint Set

  • Moxie15Moxie15 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    @Moxie15 said:

    @YQQ said:
    what does FG mean?
    also, what does "SMS" mean?
    I am just curious now , as Just yesterday I acquired a pile of Kennedy halfs and some other US coinage.
    Thanks for your help.

    FG are the designer's initials Frank Gasparro
    SMS Special Mint Set

  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I'm not sure why you don't start with Customer Service.

    I posted the thread before Customer Service was open in hopes of having confirmation of my evaluation or saving myself the embarrassment of being wrong before calling. I've thrown that caution to the wind and have spoken with Customer Service and asked them to take another look at it.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    I once heard it needed to be included in the redbook to not need variety attribution. I just checked my 2013 66th edition and could not find 1966 SMS Kennedys in the Kennedy section, so you got half for free.

    Each TPGS has its own way of doing things....best to check first.

    Every TPGS I've worked for (except one) did every variety (Redbook or not) IF it could be verified in a reference and also discovery coins that no one was aware of (without needing a second example). In many cases the submitter was not charged.

    I am fairly certain that all the TPGs do some major varieties at no charge. These may just be the Redbook coins that are mentioned above.

  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    My understanding of PCGS's major variety standard is established by going to the general Coin Facts page for the non-variety coin and clicking on the "Show Related Coins and Varieties" pull-down menu and the varieties are broken into 2 columns "Major Varieties" and "Die Varieties." The Major Varieties would not require the variety designation.

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thank you Moxie

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking closely at the blown up reverse of the coin in the True View image I see the slightest hint of the initials FG.

    Of course my eyes and mind may be playing tricks on me.

    In hand the coin may show no initials at all.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    I've received grades and this TrueView in the last couple of days, is this coin the "No FG" variety?

    either a mistake was made or the "ghost" image of the initials was too much to allow the designation. I have seen them like that, it is subtle but still visible. there needs to be no trace at any angle and with any light.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the OP can see any trace of "FG" then it does not qualify as a "no FG" variety.

  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    Though our opinions aren't the ones that ultimately matter, there is the same mark indicated by my yellow arrow on every one of the coins imaged in CoinFacts: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1966-50c-sms-no-fg/images/411636

    That being said, the blue arrow may be pointing to extremely light remnants of the initials.

    We shall see what our host's 2nd look says.

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2019 12:14PM
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    I voted, "Yes". Even though there might be a tick of the initials. If somebody that doesn't have knowledge of the FG initials, such as the previous poster, YQQ, you can never determine that any initials are suppose to be there. So, yes, I would say, "the No FG", variety! ;) Nice variety in deed.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    I would be interested in the results... If possible OP?

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    I wanna change my answer. If THIS is the top pop no FG, then you definitely have a no FG also. Because I can clearly see the "G" in the $15,000 coin.

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    Still waiting on the results of the "2nd look" hopefully it didn't have to go to the back of the line.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ModCrewman said:
    Still waiting on the results of the "2nd look" hopefully it didn't have to go to the back of the line.

    I have been down that road a couple times with our host...I would imagine that ONE attributor would look at the coin in question...and it depends on who gets to take another look at it.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    Though our opinions aren't the ones that ultimately matter, there is the same mark indicated by my yellow arrow on every one of the coins imaged in CoinFacts

    Don, I just went and looked at the CoinFacts images and WHAT I SAW IS EMBARRASSING, so I hope more members look at the posted images. I understand that you would like the coin to receive the designation, but if it shows some of the "FG" designers initials could you in good conscience represent it as that Variety??

    go to CoinFacts and look at the three images for 1966 50C SMS No "FG" (Special Strike) --- the top-pop SP68 clearly shows the "G" as does the bottom SP66, even stronger. the top SP67 shows some ghosting but I would need to see the coin in-hand to know for certain.

    further, a quick look at the nine additional images listed shows at least five with some of the "G" visible. these SHOULD NOT QUALIFY AS THE VARIETY. I have owned two old ANACS coins and one current PCGS coin and the initials need to be fully abraded. for PCGS to encapsulate the SP68 and SP66 coins displayed on the Coinfacts main page for this Variety is embarrassing. they should never have been encapsulated as such and anyone "buying that label" is in my mind a fool.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2019 2:52PM
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    the coin below is from CoinFacts. you tell me, is it a no "FG" Variety?? :D

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keets.

    On the Coin Facts image you posted I not only see a very self evident "G", I also see the faint outlines of an "F".

    To answer your question,................... No.

    Of course many buyers will not look at the coin closely and will simply buy the holder containing a label that has the numbers and letters that they desire.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,871 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps this "variety" should be renamed "partial FG"?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug...
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    Perhaps this "variety" should be renamed partial FG?

    no, it exists properly attributed.

  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    @keets said:
    Don, I just went and looked at the CoinFacts images and WHAT I SAW IS EMBARRASSING, so I hope more members look at the posted images. I understand that you would like the coin to receive the designation, but if it shows some of the "FG" designers initials could you in good conscience represent it as that Variety??

    I probably need to pull my Wiles Kennedy book to see what diagnostics are shown. In my opinion the subject coin, as well as all of the coins shown on this CoinFacts page show no sign of the FG apart from the "dot" where the point of the top corner of the G would be. (The two coins on the main landing page certainly show more of the G than I would think should be allowed. The other coins certainly seem to me to not show any other sign of the FG. Again, I've not pulled my Wiles book, but the "dot" seems diagnostic to me of a "no FG" coin.

    This SP66 at the top of the page I've linked is also my coin.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    I voted No, but it could be the pic.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    @ModCrewman said:

    @keets said:
    Don, I just went and looked at the CoinFacts images and WHAT I SAW IS EMBARRASSING, so I hope more members look at the posted images. I understand that you would like the coin to receive the designation, but if it shows some of the "FG" designers initials could you in good conscience represent it as that Variety??

    I probably need to pull my Wiles Kennedy book to see what diagnostics are shown. In my opinion the subject coin, as well as all of the coins shown on this CoinFacts page show no sign of the FG apart from the "dot" where the point of the top corner of the G would be. (The two coins on the main landing page certainly show more of the G than I would think should be allowed. The other coins certainly seem to me to not show any other sign of the FG. Again, I've not pulled my Wiles book, but the "dot" seems diagnostic to me of a "no FG" coin.

    This SP66 at the top of the page I've linked is also my coin.

    The biggest diagnostic in on the obverse. There are greased filled die versions but the "real McCoy" has a floating nose if I remember correctly. I've seen a couple of these but both had traces of the FG so were no-go.

    Tempus fugit.
  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    Well, the certificate verification has been updated:

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it is not a "No FG"

    Thanks for the update.

    I have one off the no-FG die so I guess I'll send it in too.

    Tempus fugit.
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is a "No FG"

    Well, good for you, dude! I knew it. ;)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Way to go Don. :)

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice

    Collector, occasional seller

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