Have at it, you savages.

HappyLittleTrees

Fresh meat for the pack. Seller is the buyer, confirmed by the seller of the original.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1887-Morgan-Dollar-PCGS-MS63-OGH-Rattler-/253912324504

HappyLittleTrees

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beautiful-Rainbow-Toned-1887-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Pcgs-Rattler-MS63/183539117957

Meltdown

Here are the original seller photo's and the one currently on ebay.
This guy is a cook and a crook.
The white Morgan was sold via ebay and delivered to the current seller on 10/29 - less than a month later, it's now a rainbow?

messydesk

Hopefully our hosts are seeing this sort of crap and are thinking of what they could do to protect both the unsuspecting buyer and the integrity of their brand. There are times like this where there is sufficient evidence to pull a cert on an old coin and show that it has been doctored in the slab. Cert lookup would then show an "invalidated" cert and show why.

1630Boston

Wow!

Tookybandit

Wow that's wild!
Is it evil that the toned version looks nicer to me?

Hemispherical

Double Wow!

HappyLittleTrees

I asked the seller if he toned it. Response: "Absolutely not. I don't think anyone can artificially tone a coin in a holder. Hope this answers your question. Have a great night."

Hallco

I'm not an expert in monster toners(or anything else for the most part)...but the colors don't have a natural look to me at all.

Coinstartled

Not all that impressive as monster toners go.

WillieBoyd2

Is this the "Lady Scarface" variety?

Hemispherical

Probably nothing... then again.

The scratches that can be seen on the slab do not seem to match. These are just observations based upon the above pics, comparing top pic to bottom pic:

-scratches under 1887
-scratches under MS63
-scratch at 2:00 near outside edge of coin
-there is more...got tired of typing

To be fair, lighting and angle are factors and my observations could be way off.

Probably better to compare coins but the slab jumped at me first.

What is the incidence rate of home re-slabbers?

MattTheRiley

both slabs are OBVIOUSLY the same coin. Look at the giant gouge under her eye!

PerryHall

Both coins have the same serial number and both coins have the same gash on the chin. Both are obviously the same coin.

messydesk

@Hemispherical said:
Probably nothing... then again.

The scratches that can be seen on the slab do not seem to match. These are just observations based upon the above pics, comparing top pic to bottom pic:

-scratches under 1887
-scratches under MS63
-scratch at 2:00 near outside edge of coin
-there is more...got tired of typing

To be fair, lighting and angle are factors and my observations could be way off.

Probably better to compare coins but the slab jumped at me first.

What is the incidence rate of home re-slabbers?

Hack under Liberty's eye and mark on jaw make it easy to show it's the same coin. Are you saying that the slab was opened and the coin gassed before being put back into a different slab with the same tag? Whether or not that's the case, if it's possible, it's yet another reason for PCGS to invalidate this cert.

braddick

@Hemispherical said:
Probably nothing... then again.

The scratches that can be seen on the slab do not seem to match. These are just observations based upon the above pics, comparing top pic to bottom pic:

-scratches under 1887
-scratches under MS63
-scratch at 2:00 near outside edge of coin
-there is more...got tired of typing

To be fair, lighting and angle are factors and my observations could be way off.

Probably better to compare coins but the slab jumped at me first.

What is the incidence rate of home re-slabbers?

My dude, same serial number, bro.

Cougar1978

So he removed it from slab, doctored it, put it back in?

Or did he heat it in the slab?

No doubt same coin.

1630Boston

Although I am No Expert, I would assume it was tarnished in the slab JMO

Insider2

Great detective work and THANKS for the post!

Insider2

@Hemispherical said:
Probably nothing... then again.

The scratches that can be seen on the slab do not seem to match. These are just observations based upon the above pics, comparing top pic to bottom pic:

-scratches under 1887
-scratches under MS63
-scratch at 2:00 near outside edge of coin
-there is more...got tired of typing

To be fair, lighting and angle are factors and my observations could be way off.

Probably better to compare coins but the slab jumped at me first.

What is the incidence rate of home re-slabbers?

Could Be.

BryceM

Gassed in the slab would be my guess. I'm pretty sure this is the only time this has ever happened.

BuffaloIronTail

No comment.

Pete

HappyLittleTrees

@Insider2 said:
Great detective work and THANKS for the post!

Was discovered by the seller. I contribute nothing to society.

StrikeOutXXX

@BryceM said:
Gassed in the slab would be my guess. I'm pretty sure this is the only time this has ever happened.

It’s 2006 all over again
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/535409/pcgs-forum-members-please-accept-my-apologies/p1

AmazingIntellect

@BryceM said:
Gassed in the slab would be my guess. I'm pretty sure this is the only time this has ever happened.

Several years ago, on this very board, a CU member was caught red handed doing exactly the same thing. Gave some totally BS excuse which no one with two active brain cells ever believed. If memory serves me correctly, he confessed and gave his mea culpas. How soon they forget, and to think, he still posts here today......................

PerryHall

@FadeToBlack said:
You dont have to remove these from the slab.

You put the slab in a vacuum chamber, vacuum out the air, and add your toning agent to the chamber... Or something like that.

This is exactly what happened. Slabs are definitely not air tight. Rattler slabs especially so.

Insider2

@FadeToBlack said:
You dont have to remove these from the slab.

You put the slab in a vacuum chamber, vacuum out the air, and add your toning agent to the chamber... Or something like that.

This comment leaves me cold. Do you know or are you guessing? I think it would be very educational to learn the exact process as I'm 100% sure many on this forum know how it is done.

The ONLY time I actually saw slabs from five different TPGS's tested for air tight properties was done with Hydrogen Sulfide in a zip lock bag using a fume hood. There was no perceptible change and all but one slab passed. No heat or vacuum was used and the slabs were only exposed for a short time.

ChrisH821

I like the original better

JBK

I would assume a vacuum sucks all of the air out of the chamber (presumably including what is in the slab), and then the magic gas is introduced into the chamber. Once the chamber is depressurized, it and everything in it is filled with the tainted air.

Something like that.

Colonialcoin

Great detective work.

Both versions are ugly. That said, perhaps the guy tested a cheap coin to see how things work out. Next step could be a better date in a better grade. Ugh!

coinbuf

@Insider2 said:

@FadeToBlack said:
You dont have to remove these from the slab.

You put the slab in a vacuum chamber, vacuum out the air, and add your toning agent to the chamber... Or something like that.

This comment leaves me cold. Do you know or are you guessing? I think it would be very educational to learn the exact process as I'm 100% sure many on this forum know how it is done.

The ONLY time I actually saw slabs from five different TPGS's tested for air tight properties was done with Hydrogen Sulfide in a zip lock bag using a fume hood. There was no perceptible change and all but one slab passed. No heat or vacuum was used and the slabs were only exposed for a short time.

Check a couple posts above yours, you can get the full details from the forum member caught doing this. He is still a member today.

Coinstartled

@Insider2 said:

@FadeToBlack said:
You dont have to remove these from the slab.

You put the slab in a vacuum chamber, vacuum out the air, and add your toning agent to the chamber... Or something like that.

This comment leaves me cold. Do you know or are you guessing? I think it would be very educational to learn the exact process as I'm 100% sure many on this forum know how it is done.

I don't believe that it benefits the hobby to have that information shared on a public forum.

...and for the record, I do not know the process.

U1chicago

@Colonialcoin said:
Great detective work.

Both versions are ugly. That said, perhaps the guy tested a cheap coin to see how things work out. Next step could be a better date in a better grade. Ugh!

It’s likely profitable enough with cheap coins. This example was bought for $60 and is already over $100 with a few days to go. That seller sold another gassed rattler for $262. At that pace they don’t even have to move on to bigger targets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vibrant-Natural-Rainbow-Toned-1886-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Pcgs-OGH-Rattler-MS61/183492750463?hash=item2ab9052c7f:g:x7AAAOSwVFJbyQRy#vi__app-cvip-panel

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-PHILADELPHIA-MORGAN-DOLLAR-PCGS-MS61-/401601295543?nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2349624.m43663.l44720#vi__app-cvip-panel

BryceM

I particularly like how that one is advertised as naturally toned.

Me think he doth protest too much.....

Namvet69

This is why all this intense toning stuff should be either a negative or irrelevant. The professional numismatists and scientists know what naturally progressive toning looks like on silver. So what's next? Peace Roy

Hemispherical

@Hemispherical said:
Probably nothing... then again.

The scratches that can be seen on the slab do not seem to match. These are just observations based upon the above pics, comparing top pic to bottom pic:

-scratches under 1887
-scratches under MS63
-scratch at 2:00 near outside edge of coin
-there is more...got tired of typing

To be fair, lighting and angle are factors and my observations could be way off.

Probably better to compare coins but the slab jumped at me first.

What is the incidence rate of home re-slabbers?

To quote myself, “Probably nothing...” and “Probably better to compare coins...”

Still, what is the incidence rate of home re-slabbing and/or modifications to a slab?

blitzdude

Glad they decided to dip it. Looks much better white then with that nasty AT.

hammer1

@HappyLittleTrees said:

@Insider2 said:
Great detective work and THANKS for the post!

Was discovered by the seller. I contribute nothing to society.

You're the top poster at that Refugee place.

Rexford

@HeatherBoyd Can this cert number be deactivated?

HeatherBoyd

@Rexford said:
@HeatherBoyd Can this cert number be deactivated?

Working on this now

Dave99B

Shocking, to say the least.

Dave

asheland

@messydesk said:
Hopefully our hosts are seeing this sort of crap and are thinking of what they could do to protect both the unsuspecting buyer and the integrity of their brand. There are times like this where there is sufficient evidence to pull a cert on an old coin and show that it has been doctored in the slab. Cert lookup would then show an "invalidated" cert and show why.

100% agree!

BAJJERFAN

@Cougar1978 said:
So he removed it from slab, doctored it, put it back in?

Or did he heat it in the slab?

No doubt same coin.

No need to remove it from the slab. Rattlers are not especially airtight.

BAJJERFAN

@FadeToBlack said:
You dont have to remove these from the slab.

You put the slab in a vacuum chamber, vacuum out the air, and add your toning agent to the chamber... Or something like that.

What I would do.

BAJJERFAN

@BryceM said:
I particularly like how that one is advertised as naturally toned.

Me think he doth protest too much.....

It's a natural result of the conditions to which it was exposed.

AmazingIntellect

Why doesn't someone ask the current CU member who performed this stunt over a decade ago that I mentioned earlier? His work was more than just one or two slabs. Forgotten, or merely taking the ostrich head in the sand option?

BAJJERFAN

@HappyLittleTrees said:
I asked the seller if he toned it. Response: "Absolutely not. I don't think anyone can artificially tone a coin in a holder. Hope this answers your question. Have a great night."

How many of his other listings are similarly toned?

BAJJERFAN

What's the likelihood that eBay would bounce you for auction interference if you asked the seller too many questions?

fc

Next advancement. Textile toning while in the slab! Get to work boys (and girls).

TwoSides2aCoin

No biggie. A thirty dollar coin. Fifteen of it being the plastic.