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British Kings and Queens "Bullet Book," William & Mary, 1689 - 1694


1689 William & Mary guinea
NOTE: The little elephant with the castle on its back just below William's bust indicates that the gold in this coin came from Guinea. This is the source of the name for this gold coin

• Mary was the daughter of James II by his first wife, Anne Hyde. William was the son of Mary Stuart, a daughter of Charles I. He was a stadtholder, or chief executive of the principality of Orange. The Dutch did not have kings, but had politically appointed leaders.

• William was born to the potential to acquire power in Holland, but he would have to earn it. During the late 1600s, King Louis XIV of France was bent upon asserting French hegemony through out the European Continent. He conducted wars to such an extent that the Vatican formed alliances with Protestant nations to curb his aggressions.

• Holland was badly overmatched in a land war with France. William was appointed the Captain-General of Dutch forces. William was unable to hold the line against the French. He was forced to withdraw his army into the Holland. There he ordered the Dutch to open their dikes, a defensive measure that came to be known as the Dutch Water Line. William was able to hold the French a stalemate on land while the Dutch Navy was far more successful.

• William and Mary had polar opposite personalities. William was small, focused and strong willed. Mary was a bit hefty, open, friendly and gregarious. She was very upset when her father reached an agreement with William on a politically motivated arranged marriage. The two eventually warmed to each other, and their opposite personalities proved to be a God sent for England.

• As a result of the Glorious Revolution, William and Mary were crowned as co-rulers. In reality William was the main force and Mary only ruled when William was out of the country.

• William continued to have to defend Holland against the French.

• Major reforms: The Act of Toleration extended religious freedom to dissenting Protestants. William had hoped for greater reforms, but accepted this limited reform.

• The Bill of Rights passed in 1689 reflected the political thoughts of philosopher John Locke. It was an extraordinary step which included the following points:

 No taxation without express authorization from Parliament
 No royal interference in the legal processes.
 No standing army in peacetime without Parliamentary approval.
 No retribution for making petitions to the monarch.
 No cruel and unusual punishment.
 Absolute freedom of speech during Parliamentary debates.

 These provisions became the cornerstone for British law and have remained so to this very day.
 After the Bill of Rights was passed, Parliament became the center of gravity within the British Government.

• In 1689 James II landed an army in Ireland with a force of French soldiers to regain the throne. When progress toward defeating the Jacobite force became too slow, William personally took command of the army and defeated James’ insurgents at the Battle of Boyne.

• William’s relationship with the Scots was never good. They never fully accepted his rule, and after a massacre at Glencoe William’s reputation never recovered.

• After a miscarriage Mary was unable to have children, and her overall health was negatively affected.

• After Mary died on December 28, 1694, William ruled alone.

Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What was the value of the Guinea during this period? Did its gold content and value remain constant over time?

    All glory is fleeting.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The original value was one pound or 20 shillings. I don't have and can't find any charts about how the value fluctuated over time. The run of thumb was 21 shillings in the 18th and early 19th centuries, but it could get as high as 30 shillings, probably during wars and such.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Over a long period of time, the value of the guinea fluctuated in terms of shillings. I believe the gold content was constant, MOL.

    One of the books in my Library says that the Guinea started at 20 shillings under Charles II in 1663 and that the Guinea became a 30 shilling coin in 1694 and then fell to a value of 21 shillings and 6 pence during the period 1698-1717. The book says that the value of the Guinea fell to 21 shillings in 1717 where it remained until 1970 (decimalization). The book suggests that this fluctuation was a part of the Great Recoinage and also later efforts to replace 'the badly debased silver coinage', but this statement is very vague.

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love these threads!

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe the gold content was constant, MOL.

    Yes I believe that the British did try to maintain the integrity of their gold coins. They didn’t debase the gold – copper alloy, and they did maintain the weights of specific denominations. When they did need to create a similar gold coin with less gold content, they added a denomination was done during Edward IV’s reign with the Noble and the Angel. The Angel was added to take the place of the only Noble when the silver coins were reduced in size.

    If you think about, messing with the integrity of the gold coinage would have effected the upper class, and they were about to shoot themselves in the foot.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The British aristocracy and the upper slice of businessmen were extremely good about protecting their own interests.

    At the time of the Great Recoinage, if you accept the often stated fact that the English government gave full face value for clipped/shaved silver coinage, it is possible that they raised the value of the gold guinea by 50% to take back some of the "gain" from those who had speculated in the old clipped silver coinage. Once the Great Recoinage had become reasonably effective, then they allowed the guinea to come back down to a more normal tariff.

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We were made to calculate sums in guineas at school - this in the late 60's in Cyprus.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    We were made to calculate sums in guineas at school - this in the late 60's in Cyprus.

    Some auction houses were referencing values in guineas as late as the early 1970s.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
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    oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you Bill for a very informative, interesting, and refreshing post.

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    SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018 5:56PM


    William and Mary had the distinction of being a prime example of a political marriage that resulted in one of the better known mismatches in British history.

    In Scotland coinage production in Edinburgh dropped off precipitously after Charles II's reign. One reason was the economy was stagnant - a factor that ultimately led to the Union of the Crown's as the United Kingdom in 1707.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
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    carabonnaircarabonnair Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2018 12:12PM

    @SaorAlba said:

    @7Jaguars said:
    We were made to calculate sums in guineas at school - this in the late 60's in Cyprus.

    Some auction houses were referencing values in guineas as late as the early 1970s.

    My first introduction to guineas was the joke in the Beatles' movie "A Hard Day's Night":

    Casino Manager: Before you go, gentlemen, there's a little matter of the bill.
    Norm: I'll take care of that.
    [Norm takes a look at the bill]
    Norm: [shocked] Hundred eighty pounds?
    Casino Manager: I beg your pardon. Guineas. [£189]
    Casino Croupier: Your winnings, my Lord. One hundred and ninety pounds.
    [Grandfather is excited, but the manager immediately takes the money from him as payment for the bill]
    Grandfather: Where are me change?
    Casino Manager: Cloakroom charge.
    Ringo: Oh, well. Easy come, easy go.
    [Grandfather and Norm angrily look at Ringo]
    Ringo: Well?

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